A new boxer....

[melville]

Maybe Chuey can comment on what's happened in the last ten years or so, but Schwinn was the first Western bicycle company to source product in China (ca. 1990), and like they did with their previous Japanese and Taiwanese partners, they kept their own QC people on the floor. The end product was indistinguishable, quality-wise, from a similar level bike from Taiwan.

VW vendors I deal with nowadays say much the same--if you keep after the QC, you will get good product.

You are mistaken about the quality of the Chinese Schwinns. They gave up on the China partnership because the Chinese factory was unable to meet their quantity and quality requirements. (you can find Schwinn history here: http://re-cycle.com/History/Schwinn.aspx

Schwinn has now ceased to exist. Their name is now simply a badge put on department store imports. They went bankrupt in the 90's, and Scott bought them. They tried to be competitive for a while after that, but now, they are owned by "Pacific," and their model line doesn't seem to be in competition with anyone but Huffy. They made some really bad mistakes. Their history through the 70's, 80's, and 90's is now a textbook example for business classes all over the country on how to destroy a successful business.

I was there (working at a Schwinn dealer) for the beginning of the China business but went to another shop soon after. The first bikes were indistinguishable, quality wise, from similar level Taiwanese bikes. Then I had a gap of about 5 years before I was again employed in a Schwinn shop, time enough for their first bankruptcy and Sam Zell buying the name. I did not see as much China product then. I was briefly employed in a Schwinn shop in the fall of 2001, when they went bankrupt again, leading to their eventual acquisition by Pacific. In the fall of 2002 I gave a presentation in my Marketing class about the various failures of Schwinn. I got an "A!" Absolutely a textbook example--but nowadays pretty much everything we know as a "bike company" here is the US is using that Schwinn model. No factory, just a buncha sales and marketing guys in a cube farm.

I miss Gary Helfrich and his SOPWAMTOS--Society Of People Who Actually Make Their Own Shit!

[Major Softie]

I was there (working at a Schwinn dealer) for the beginning of the China business but went to another shop soon after. The first bikes were indistinguishable, quality wise, from similar level Taiwanese bikes. Then I had a gap of about 5 years before I was again employed in a Schwinn shop, time enough for their first bankruptcy and Sam Zell buying the name. I did not see as much China product then. I was briefly employed in a Schwinn shop in the fall of 2001, when they went bankrupt again, leading to their eventual acquisition by Pacific. In the fall of 2002 I gave a presentation in my Marketing class about the various failures of Schwinn. I got an "A!" Absolutely a textbook example--but nowadays pretty much everything we know as a "bike company" here is the US is using that Schwinn model. No factory, just a buncha sales and marketing guys in a cube farm.

I miss Gary Helfrich and his SOPWAMTOS--Society Of People Who Actually Make Their Own Shit!

I guess either your experience was different than the average, or perhaps it was when they tried to crank up production to the levels Schwinn needed that the quality dropped off.

At least you can still buy what was the only REALLY good bike Schwinn ever made - it just doesn't have the Schwinn name on it anymore, even if there's a real Schwinn involved in running the place:

[melville]

I was there (working at a Schwinn dealer) for the beginning of the China business but went to another shop soon after. The first bikes were indistinguishable, quality wise, from similar level Taiwanese bikes. Then I had a gap of about 5 years before I was again employed in a Schwinn shop, time enough for their first bankruptcy and Sam Zell buying the name. I did not see as much China product then. I was briefly employed in a Schwinn shop in the fall of 2001, when they went bankrupt again, leading to their eventual acquisition by Pacific. In the fall of 2002 I gave a presentation in my Marketing class about the various failures of Schwinn. I got an "A!" Absolutely a textbook example--but nowadays pretty much everything we know as a "bike company" here is the US is using that Schwinn model. No factory, just a buncha sales and marketing guys in a cube farm.

I miss Gary Helfrich and his SOPWAMTOS--Society Of People Who Actually Make Their Own Shit!

I guess either your experience was different than the average, or perhaps it was when they tried to crank up production to the levels Schwinn needed that the quality dropped off.

At least you can still buy what was the only REALLY good bike Schwinn ever made - it just doesn't have the Schwinn name on it anymore, even if there's a real Schwinn involved in running the place:

I see from the image URL that it's a Waterford bike (pic is cut off on my screen). Those are sweet. The shop I useta work for in Seattle sold Paramount all their seat lugs, BB shells, and fork crowns. The owners joked about being able to track Paramount production.....

[Major Softie]

Just right-click on the image and choose "View Image." That will show the whole thing. Pretty paint job. Delicate steel.

[SteveD]

Apparently to have the K16 FD.

[The Veg]

MCN article

[Chuey]

To let you know what Schwinn is up to these days, there are two levels of Schwinn bikes. The owners seem to be cognizant of the importance of their heritage. They have a department store line and a bicycle shop line. They are owned by a company that owns (at least) Schwinn, GT, Pacific, and Cannondale.

My involvement with them goes back a couple years, so that could be different nowadays. Other than the quality of the spokes, the bike shop bikes had a very nice presentation. Since I quit selling them, they started selling beach cruisers with can (soda, beer, etc.) holders built into the top tube. I thought that was hokey as hell but they felt the need to "redesign and modernize" the Schwinn Cruiser. They had some pretty nice nostalgia bikes and did put out a few nicer practical bikes. They kind of lost me with their electric bikes. That segment of the marketplace has been touted by some but fact is, most people think they should cost a couple hundred instead of fifteen hundred bucks or more.

As far as a BMW with a Chinese transmission: I read an article in a woodworking magazine years ago that made me think I understand how cheaper labor source manufacturing works. If you ask for the absolute cheapest price instead of quality, you will get crap. If you ask for and pay for a given level of quality and monitor or manage it, you can get excellent results. I give you Huffy bicycles as a qualifier. They were made where? USA. What was the intent? CHEAP! What was the result? As bad as anything you get nowadays from China. There are more factors but the main one is price. Does that sound like the old cliche'? "You get what you pay for."

Chuey

[The Veg]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycles/2013-bmw-r1200gs/2013-bmw-r1200gs-left-front.jpg

Looks to have lots of interesting things going on. Can't to hear if it's any good. The next-gen RT, which will have this engine, is about a year out yet.

[chasbmw]

I'm going to see the new water cooled bike on Saturday, I think that the photos look good. I was told that the gearbox is made in Japan, so it might even change gear easily.

However the South African bike launch was not a success, with the bike seemingly going into tank slappers on both Tarmac and dirt roads, at least 3 journalists had this problem and the bike being ridden by the UK bike magazine, broke both fork stops. Another British journalist was killed,apparently due to a tank slapper, but I have not seen this officially confirmed.

[Major Softie]

However the South African bike launch was not a success, with the bike seemingly going into tank slappers on both Tarmac and dirt roads, at least 3 journalists had this problem and the bike being ridden by the UK bike magazine, broke both fork stops. Another British journalist was killed,apparently due to a tank slapper, but I have not seen this officially confirmed.

Not "apparently," but it is not an unreasonable hypothesis under the circumstances. We talked about it on another thread. I've seen no "evidence" at all, although, since another journalist was injured at the same time, you'd think his report on the accident would be vital to understanding what happened.