Sequential shifting question for the cycle racers...

[dougie]

All I know is: four wheeled vehicles lean the wrong way in corners. So I try to live in a two wheeled environment. Cars are necessary, but much less fun.

Agreed. Any vehicle that can stand up all by itself has got to be boooooooooring.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

Perhaps it would be better for you to compare an automotive sequential racing gearbox with a motorcycle sequential racing gearbox.Airheads are touring motorcycles - apples with apples sorta stuff.Truck gearboxes are constant mesh with sliding dogs,and are considered slow....but clutchless shift very well.Not sequential....but back in the day I sometimes wished they were when I got lost in the box on a hill.

One of the proud moments of my (then) young life was when I mastered an old International truck, non-syncro transmission, by double clutching when shifting upward and double clutching and blipping the throttle when shifting down.
(Hmmm, thinking about it, that might have been my FIRST actual accomplishment.)

Back then I didn't even think about what to do if I got lost in the box on a hill. And BMW motorcycles were what old farts drove around.
(Hmmm again. That last part might still be true.)


Ken

[dwire]

Perhaps it would be better for you to compare an automotive sequential racing gearbox with a motorcycle sequential racing gearbox.Airheads are touring motorcycles - apples with apples sorta stuff.Truck gearboxes are constant mesh with sliding dogs,and are considered slow....but clutchless shift very well.Not sequential....but back in the day I sometimes wished they were when I got lost in the box on a hill.

Point taken with regard to race bikes boxes. Well, let's see, what is the hottest BMW cafe bike that is say 5 years old? We can pull the ETK up and compare them directly. Still don't know what the riders are able to do with their boxes without asking a competitor directly. Does anyone know this?

1) Identify a model of BMW competition cafe bike from about five years ago (so it is certain to be an my older ETK db.)
2) What are the rules these competitors must live by with their boxes? Clutchless up-shifts? - AND - Is spinning up the box (via the throttle) required while downshifting during threshold breaking for a turn or not?

This I could easily and readily compare if you fellas can provide those answers.

[dwire]

All I know is: four wheeled vehicles lean the wrong way in corners. So I try to live in a two wheeled environment. Cars are necessary, but much less fun.

Agreed. Any vehicle that can stand up all by itself has got to be boooooooooring.

I like it, good counterpoint... I've walked away from crashes at 180 and a direct impact at about 120 with a solid structure. That was the allure for me (protection that is, live to race another day...) and after you experience that and imagine what might have become of you in the same situation on a M/C with virtually no protection, you become a bit frightened, or at least my pansy-ass does...

[Zombie Master]

All I know is: four wheeled vehicles lean the wrong way in corners. So I try to live in a two wheeled environment. Cars are necessary, but much less fun.

Agreed. Any vehicle that can stand up all by itself has got to be boooooooooring.

I like it, good counterpoint... I've walked away from crashes at 180 and a direct impact at about 120 with a solid structure. That was the allure for me (protection that is, live to race another day...) and after you experience that and imagine what might have become of you in the same situation on a M/C with virtually no protection, you become a bit frightened, or at least my pansy-ass does...

Well you could always just stay in bed.

Motorcycles are the safest vehicle on the road! Until the point of impact. But you have so many ways to avoid the impact!

[dwire]

Not learning about our transmission here. I can talk of my open-wheel racing career and high speed crashes elsewhere...

[Major Softie]

Not learning about our transmission here. I can talk of my open-wheel racing career and high speed crashes elsewhere...

Oh no...

Did dwire just try to criticize thread degradation? I hope he's not in the wrong Forum.

[melville]

Not learning about our transmission here. I can talk of my open-wheel racing career and high speed crashes elsewhere...

What's to know? We don't double clutch because our sequential bike transmissions don't go through neutral between gears. A smooth rider will bring the revs up while the clutch is disengaged on a downshift so as not to upset the vehicle in a corner, particularly with shaft drive.

[dwire]

What's to know? We don't double clutch because our sequential bike transmissions don't go through neutral between gears. A smooth rider will bring the revs up while the clutch is disengaged on a downshift so as not to upset the vehicle in a corner, particularly with shaft drive.

We don't double clutch because our sequential bike transmissions don't go through neutral between gears.

What is it that you either have not read or cannot comprehend here? Sequentially shifted transmissions' only differing characteristic from a standard pattern synchronized, or even straight cut truck transmission is the notion it has no neutral between gears; hence the terminology sequential. Was this not already covered several times in this thread?

Formula cars are of the straight cut variety and sequentially shifted (just like your motorcycle) and have no neutral between gears, that is why they are deemed sequential in nature. AGAIN, it IS MANDATORY to spin up the engine to get them (a formula race car) to go down in gear, it's not "being nice to them" OK, well I guess it IS being nice to them, if you consider nice, not pushing the lever forward and grinding all of the dogs off of the next lower gear and losing that gear ratio for the rest of the day.... Several laps and you would have to be towed in after you ripped them all out. Is that being nice or "smooth" - no it is a prerequisite to operation. This simple fact in addition to the notion we used these same transmissions clutchlessly on upshifts as mentioned at the beginning of this thread (Full throttle, pre-load shifter, burp the throttle ever so slightly and pull lever back into next gear...) are the only two things I was, have been and maintain to inquire what makes them differ for seemingly the same design.

[dwire]

Not learning about our transmission here. I can talk of my open-wheel racing career and high speed crashes elsewhere...

Oh no...

Did dwire just try to criticize thread degradation? I hope he's not in the wrong Forum.

Too funny. I think it is common for many to learn when threads get derailed.

I am uncertain what is learned by repeating the same thing over and over, rephrasing my question in new and more ingenious ways to only have posts like the one I just responded to. All of that was covered ad-nauseum twice earlier.

I don't know... Whatever I guess, sorry I asked. At the time, I thought I would learn that for which I did not know, instead one thing is certain, I have learned not to ask a question that is unlikely for others to have any answer to. For at least in this case, of all these posts, I think there are two that postulate anything at all with regard to my question. The rest is essentially me re-stating the same things over and over.