Tube in a tubeless, belt & suspenders?

[ME 109]

Trout?

Yes, trout.
My son caught a nice brook trout which was pan fried in olive oil with a sprinkle of salt.
There's a lot of taste in a fresh caught mountain trout.
6 ft telescopic rods are the go........nice fit in the panniers.

Mainly rainbow and brown trout in my part of Oz.

I got this brown easter saturday, just out of the mountains near my parents home.
My best fish in this creek was a 5-3/4 lb brown caught about 10 years ago on......good friday.
I've fished this creek over the last 35 years and have caught many superb trout.
I've let a lot go too mind you!

[lrz]

On a Rapala??!!

I thought airhead riders were required to tie-flies!

That brown looks slightly different than ours in the N'east US, more...plump/fuller. Then again, we have very few holdovers .
One of the tastiest I caught locally was a lake rainbow, only 18" or so, also on a deep rapala, but had pink flesh.mmm-mmm!

[ME 109]

On a Rapala??!!

I thought airhead riders were required to tie-flies!

That brown looks slightly different than ours in the N'east US, more...plump/fuller. Then again, we have very few holdovers .
One of the tastiest I caught locally was a lake rainbow, only 18" or so, also on a deep rapala, but had pink flesh.mmm-mmm!

Ha! You know your lures!
Rapala cd5 'perch'
I haven't used any other type of lure for the last 15 years. They're excellent.

My sons trout of last monday arvo had orange flesh, from a summer long diet of insects and small yabbies.

We wondered just what that trout may have been worth to a Japanese tourist.
Our streamside restaurant was 5 star that night.

[vanzen]

Been years since I've used it,
but I still own an old Berkley 6' break-down "backpacking" fly-rod.
These came apart into 6 sections that fit into a small carrying case.
Easy to stash in a Krauser saddlebag ...

Ain't nothing better than a fresh pan-fried trout or perch !

[mattcfish]

Why do I (we) run tubes in tubeless tires mounted on, say, lesters or snowflakes?

Because government legislation demands it,
corporate interest, at the behest of potential litigation, ultimately acquiesces to financial burden,
and most consumers are but little lambs following the herd and doing what they are told ...

This is nothing to do about tires, tubeless tires can be used with or without tubes,
the issue concerns "approved" rim design for tubeless use.

Some Lester wheels are designated for tubeless use -
these will be stamped as required by law - read the rim.

No flake is "approved" for use without a tube.
So, be good little lambies and do just as the shepherd says !
It's the law.

So...what exactly is the difference in rim design between a tubeless Lester and a tube Lester? Assuming you resolve the valve leakage issue, what is the risk of going tubeless on a tube specified Lester or snow flake?

[Major Softie]

So...what exactly is the difference in rim design between a tubeless Lester and a tube Lester? Assuming you resolve the valve leakage issue, what is the risk of going tubeless on a tube specified Lester or snow flake?

Rims designed for tubeless tires have a "safety bead" which makes it much more difficult to break the bead seal on the tire. This is why, when changing tubeless tires on a rim designed for such tires, "breaking the bead" is so much more difficult than when changing tires on tube-type rims. The "danger" of running a tubeless tire on a tube-type rim is the sudden (as in: instant) deflation that can occur when hitting a curb edge, pothole, etc.. That such a thing can happen is certain, but how likely such an occurrence is, is completely unknown. It certainly is rare. It seems likely that low tire pressures would make such an occurrence much more likely than it would be on a correctly inflated tire.

Those who go the tubeless route on such rims believe that the the improved safety of a tubeless tire when encountering a puncture, the ease of roadside plugging of tubeless tires in the case of such a puncture, and the reduced unsprung weight and heat development of the tubeless tire outweigh the unlikely possibility of a sudden deflation from an unseated bead. Those who object to use of a tubeless tire on such a rim believe that, regardless of how rare such a sudden deflation occurrence might be, the catastrophic nature of such a thing happening totally outweighs any possible benefit.

In reality, neither side has any real numbers to back up their decision, and, without such numbers, you can make a reasonable case for either side.

Pick your poison.

[lrz]

The definitive reply award goes to......

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Thank you!
(Bit of a gray area, I see)

[mattcfish]

I'm wishing I hadn't put tubes in last time. I've had tube tires deflate rapidly at speed twice. Both times it was my rear tire. It sure got squirrely, lucky I wasn't in a turn. To me, the info about tubeless tires deflating more slowly the majority of the time is a deciding factor. Also, having to change a tube in the middle of nowhere at night is one of my greatest fears. Another deciding factor. Bead braking on a Lester is no piece of cake.

[ME 109]

Much the same reasons for me too Matt, especially fixing a flat in the middle of nowhere.
I once found the little air bottles (4) to be insufficient to re- seat the bead tho' when fixing a tube puncture.
Ideally the tyre won't need to come off the rim for a tubeless repair.

A mini 12 volt compressor would be good.

[DanielMc]

So...what exactly is the difference in rim design between a tubeless Lester and a tube Lester? Assuming you resolve the valve leakage issue, what is the risk of going tubeless on a tube specified Lester or snow flake?

Rims designed for tubeless tires have a "safety bead" which makes it much more difficult to break the bead seal on the tire. This is why, when changing tubeless tires on a rim designed for such tires, "breaking the bead" is so much more difficult than when changing tires on tube-type rims. The "danger" of running a tubeless tire on a tube-type rim is the sudden (as in: instant) deflation that can occur when hitting a curb edge, pothole, etc.. That such a thing can happen is certain, but how likely such an occurrence is, is completely unknown. It certainly is rare. It seems likely that low tire pressures would make such an occurrence much more likely than it would be on a correctly inflated tire.

Those who go the tubeless route on such rims believe that the the improved safety of a tubeless tire when encountering a puncture, the ease of roadside plugging of tubeless tires in the case of such a puncture, and the reduced unsprung weight and heat development of the tubeless tire outweigh the unlikely possibility of a sudden deflation from an unseated bead. Those who object to use of a tubeless tire on such a rim believe that, regardless of how rare such a sudden deflation occurrence might be, the catastrophic nature of such a thing happening totally outweighs any possible benefit.

In reality, neither side has any real numbers to back up their decision, and, without such numbers, you can make a reasonable case for either side.

Pick your poison.

A succinct and comprehensive analysis - thank you.

Here in the UK I don't think I've heard of too many people fitting tubeless tyres on WM-2 (tube type) rims, and the more common concern is around fitting tubes in tubeless applications where corrosion etc. has caused poor sealing around a bead with concomitant air leaks.

Snowbum gives a good and typically expansive account here: http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section6.htm and interestingly mentions two things I didn't previously realise -

1- the small nut on a tube valve stem is for initial location only, and should subsequently be wound up to the valve cap and away from the rim.

2 - fitting a tube in a tubeless type tyre effectively lowers the speed rating of that tyre by one stop due to the increased heat generated by the friction of the tube within the tubeless tyre carcass.