1050cc Head Gaskets

[Nourish]

Hello. Does anyone know of any one selling 97mm bore composite head gaskets other than Motoren Israel?

[mattcfish]

Hello. Does anyone know of any one selling 97mm bore composite head gaskets other than Motoren Israel?

Siebenrock and BMW Bayer probably have them. Siebenrock supplies most of the piston kits to MI and BMW Bayer.

[Nourish]

What sort surface finish does a head gasket need - is it different for solid than compression - I was told to fly cut cast iron heads and not grind them. As long as it's annealed does it matter what grade copper they are?

[Nourish]

I've still got the oil leak after taking it apart so many times now. I would like to succeed in using the copper gaskets if I can( 97mm composite ones are so expensive!), I've tried .020" and .040" thick ones. I've tried Hylomar around the oil galleries and push rod tubes, ditto with Wellseal and Wellseal all over the gasket - each time re annealing the gasket. I've tried a little extra tourque on the nuts - 30lbs. I've lapped the head and even tried Hylomar under the washer beneath 6 O'clock position nut. I can't seem to find the permatex copper spray here in the UK.



Here is a picture of the thinner gasket after a short trip and you can see a black impresion left betwean the push rod tubes of the cast liner. Would this mark be the Wellseal (shellac) or burnt oil - I'm presuming that this is a compression leak?. I have since lapped the head and put Dye penatrant on the pushrod tubes -( no leaks there). This morning I went for a 100 mile trip and oil is once again on the silencer, it has collected around the 12 and 6 O'clock studs nuts and at the rear of the studs ,it's on the bottom HT lead, the joint it self look no more than moist. I'm begining to tear my hair out(of what there is left!) and can only think now it's the barrel face. A respected BMW engineer (here in the UK) relined the barrels for me, I asked if I should lap them in but he said he left the liners just a couple of thou above the alumonium face to bite into the gasket, the linerface has a good finish but I must admit this Alloy face isn't so good - would this matter? Does any one have any thoughts about my predicament here? Cheers

[mattcfish]

Seems to me that "Copper Coat" spray would be your best solution. The problem with solid copper material is that it seals best when hot but looses sealing properties when the bike cools down. Each cycle allows more oil to contaminate the gasket surface. It may always leak some. I think that is considered normal with copper gaskets on a horizontal motor. I think the dark marks are heated up sealer. Compression leaks will show tracks radiating out along the path. I think the best anther is to get regular material 97mm gaskets and mill the difference off your heads for the compression gain. On an aside, if you measure the thickness of stock gaskets after they've been compressed (I think it's around .0256" if my memory serves me) you'll see that the copper ones give you very little compression gain over OEM.

[Nourish]

Thanks Matt, I could use regular type 97mm gaskets I'd have to import from Germany but they are so expensive (and can only be used once) when I am told that copper ones should work - after all - my Triumph didn't leak. I've used a .040" copper gasket to give me a 9.45:1 compression that should easily run on regular petrol here in the UK - so using a thinner one would just mean using the "Super" petrol. These sites are great for sharing experience - being able to post pictures is fantastic - radiating track marks now seems obvious - thank you. I can't get Permatex copper Spray here in the UK - it appears it doesn't meet our Health and safety regs!!. What is available is - VHT SP21A COPPER GASKET CEMENT but I can't find any reviews on it - has anybody tried it? if it is an adhesive will it come apart again? although
as a last resort I will try Hylomar spray - I say last - the last resort would be shelling out some Euro's!

[Roy Gavin]

Loctite 601 has worked fine on the B44 VS - it was recommended by Fred Barlow, ex head of the comp shop at BSA in an article in Classic Bike back in April 93.

Hold the exhaust guides in place too-----.

[mattcfish]

Loctite 601 has worked fine on the B44 VS - it was recommended by Fred Barlow, ex head of the comp shop at BSA in an article in Classic Bike back in April 93.

Hold the exhaust guides in place too-----.

http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/601-EN.PDF
Might be the ticket, but you need heat to get it off again.

[John Falconer]

A few years ago I had a situation where I wanted to use copper gaskets on one of my R100s.

Short version ... Never worked without some oil leakage.

I used the recommended spray on copper gasket material and tried several times ... Never got a perfect oil seal. Remember that the Triumph pushrods run up through steel tubes and the copper gasket between head and barrels doesn't have to contend with oil.

[Roy Gavin]

The B44 has a cast in tunnel, but even on the early C15 's with a tube the problem is much the same as on a airhead - getting even pull down across the full width of the head.

That is why a gap filling sealant like most Loctite products might work.

I haven't had reason to remove the head, but the rest of the joints were sealed with Locktite 515 flange sealant and it splits real easy.

Fred also recommends a new gasket every time, but then I suppose most race mechanics would.