1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

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dwire
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1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by dwire »

Right - they made snowmobiles and 99% of the motorcycles they made were 50cc "Shriner" bikes or less. The 1976 racing bike came with number plates Magnesium wheels, the whole deal - even had ELECTRONIC IGNITION TOO, in 1976, we did not see that sort of thing on ordinary small engines, or cars for some time - presumably a factor of cost as I'd have thought its invention predates '76. But, yes it was the real deal. I've had people even try and argue the point with me that they existed - I'd bet all one would have to do is look back through the Devils Staircase hill climb to any sanction AMA type races that would have had a class for motocrosser's and would find them in there as they ate everything alive. That ignition was curious too; simple sealed up doughnut that had both the magneto coil in it as well as the triggering mechanism. Came with a factory Delorto slide carb on it and if I recall correctly it was a reed engine, not a rotary...

Yeah I once spent a day on the net looking for an example and could not walk away with anything; perhaps now something will have churned up, but there were literally only a handful made period and then even less went to the dealers that were all going belly up as it was like stock car racing; they could not enter the bikes without putting a certain number of them on dealer's floors. I only knew of where there was one - and it was in my town at the then RUPP dealer and ended up being the parts bike as literally the one I brought back to mint condition, I kid you not; these impossible to find bikes, one day the father (a man I worked with for years off and on as a welding consultant doing odd jobs and working at GM and such...) he happened upon an IDENTICAL 1976 RUPP 125cc motorcycle laying in the ditch. Someone had rode it off into the ditch and the motor was full of water, sand, mud and such. He did not pause for a second as he was nowhere near our region and just loaded it up. I'll bet whomever was going to bring their pals back to help retrieve their bike they left behind stuck in the mud was UTTERLY pissed when they arrived and it was gone!

But anyhow, that was the one that ended up turning into the mint bike - all numbers matching, etc. All the motocross plates, fenders, OEM I think even the original tires were on it - unsure, but we surely never changed them... But yes, RUPP was noted for snowmobiles and their baby bikes. SACHS was ONLY much noted for making engines to go into snowmobiles, so the whole RUPP racing bike with a frame designed new from the ground up for one purpose win every competition possible, was certainly not their prior MO at all; yet was pretty much their last ditch effort in the motorcycle market before going under entirely with everything. Like I said, I recall hundreds of 50cc bikes in the barn, maybe some less (meaning smaller cc's) maybe some a little more (maybe) in cc's but all of them were essentially 2-cycle "kiddies" bikes or Shriner bikes - not so for this one single machine. I know this has forced everything with the triple tree way OT and I apologize for that, but it would be grand if one day someone could post a picture, or reaffirm they too had seen ridden or raced one of those rare birds as I am always told I am nuts - which given RUPP"s and SACH's product history, I suppose I can understand...

Which BTW I could be nuts, but those bikes existed... :oops: Oh, and if this tells you anything, since I have had an eBay account - which gosh has to be 10 years or more, eBay is supposed to tell me when any 1976 RUPP motorcycles come up - or parts; anything in that displacement or for that purpose - simply racing comes online. I've never gotten a single ping relevant... I love my BMW and will love it far more for many reasons the day it is back looking like the day she was built and I may ride it again, but that old RUPP holds more memories for me than my BMW likely will be able to accumulate. I was a young man and I restored a bike to mint condition, what at like 8 or so??? Yes Duane, I'd bet there was so much stiction in the forks it was unreal, but with exception of that, something we did not know about really and there were no good sources to tell me such things, I did the best I could. So, after all these years, even though my 71 BMW-in-a-box project will be far more challenging due to its design, in many ways, it seems a larger accomplishment to restore something like that RUPP with no help, I got it running when the "older boys that knew all about that stuff" could not - and then my favorite, once it was running - the thing scared them terribly - not because it was unstable, because it was so tremendously fast. If you did not clamp onto the handlebars and grasp the tank with your knees and squeeze your ass around the seat and you just gave it hell enough that the front wheel was just ready to come off the ground - you would start coming off the back of the bike; this and its tendency to pop a wheelie in forth gear and surprise you at 50+MPH was enough for them to say, you ride that, we'll ride these little ones! lol It's 2-cycle fueled rapid acceleration could scare even a veteran rider when they initially got on it as it was nothing at all like any other 125 - likely due to the added 1/4" in diameter increase of the bore along with the decrease in the piston reciprocating weight with the Wiseco piston...
1971 R75/5 (SWB)
If you're going to hire MACHETE to kill the bad guy, you better make damn sure the bad guy isn't YOU!
Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

While I never saw the bike you're talking about, I certainly saw those Sachs motors: I remember Penton and DKW running Sachs 125 motors. Actually, the DKW I remember may have had a 250cc Sachs - it belonged to the father of a neighbor in the very early 70's.
Last edited by Major Softie on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

Here's the minibike. As soon as I saw the picture, it was like "Yeah, THAT'S how I remember them!"

Image
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Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

Okay, I found the 100cc version - also Sachs:

Image

And I found that there was a 125 for sale in Atlanta that has now been deleted. It still shows up on Google, even though the ad is gone from Craigslist:

RUPP 125cc SACHS MOTORCROSS BIKE
atlanta.craigslist.org › ... › motorcycles/scooters - by owner
6 days ago – 1974 Rupp MX bike project. Sachs will turn over but not running. Tank appears good good original pipe, nice rims, nice fenders, restorable seat ...
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Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

And here is the 125:




Image



It's a concours restoration on this page:
http://www.pelicanguanomotorsports.com/ ... 125mx.html


And here's a record of the sale of your Wiseco piston!
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/v ... eco-piston



Here's one about to be restored:

Image

That one is at this site that has a bunch of cool vintage 125's: Ossa, Puch, Montessa, Rickman, Maico, and even an Italian Indian
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi
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dwire
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by dwire »

Major Softie wrote:And here is the 125:




Image



It's a concours restoration on this page:
http://www.pelicanguanomotorsports.com/ ... 125mx.html


And here's a record of the sale of your Wiseco piston!
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/v ... eco-piston



Here's one about to be restored:

Image

That one is at this site that has a bunch of cool vintage 125's: Ossa, Puch, Montessa, Rickman, Maico, and even an Italian Indian
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi
THAT IS IT - YES I AM YELLING HOW MANY YEARS HAVE PEOPLE TOLD ME I DID NOT WORK WRENCH AND RIDE DAILY FOR YEARS ON THAT BIKE WITH THOSE SPECS, I'LL NEVER KNOW! OK, shout over.The 125cc versions we had both came factory with the exact same (RUPP "1") name plates as are on the 100cc picture above it. Which all makes plenty of sense considering one of our bikes came off a dealer floor and was no raced and the other - the "ditch bike" was not seeing real track time either. It makes sense the 125's number plates are a bit wrong as I can tell you, motocross to Go-Karts, they are always getting torn off and destroyed and such; and or if you raced under different numbers in different classes you cared little for the shape and stuff of your number plate - mostly just the price...

Thanks MS - I know, I do know how to Google, but I had given up on those bikes between Google and eBay I can't even say how long ago; then to have experienced guys tell me I was full of it, "No such bike was ever made..." while I knew what I had been riding and the history behind it due to the dealer in town, I gave up on ever seeing one again. I get three demerits for being "BMW off-topic" but thank you so much MS that really made my morning to wake up to here... and life in so many ways is simply a culmination of memories. ;)

That very well could have been the Wiseco PN piston that was used, but keep in mind I was wrenching and riding this things in the late 70's early 80's too...
1971 R75/5 (SWB)
If you're going to hire MACHETE to kill the bad guy, you better make damn sure the bad guy isn't YOU!
Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

There's knowing to use Google, and then there's knowing HOW to use Google. I've become pretty adept at figuring out the perfect key words to use to find something. I'm sure Duane is really good at it too, as he has had to really understand Google to figure out how to get his site to come up as the first hit for many topics. But, admittedly, this one wasn't that difficult. I think I just started with "Rupp Motocross," which got me the 100, and then followed up with "Rupp Sachs 125," and then sifted through three or four pages of links.

Glad I could give you a good morning. :mrgreen:
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dwire
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by dwire »

I wrote a pleasant and relevant reply for you MS while all relevant; it was too long. (This as well now turned out too long, but hopefully it's a bit of an explanation I can put to rest for all.) A while back, I started a folder and my posts initially go there as drafts. Here, my best bet is just to say thank you MS! - As it is brief. In the end, I did end up feeling l like I wasted your time Googling it. It had to be spring of '98 since I last looked online in that manner and I approach people when in circles that should know of them and always get the same type of responses; you're nuts - RUPP made this and that and SACHS was noted for their snowmobile engines - they would work together in that vane, but never on a motocross bike. etc. etc.

I can say I was shocked to see the 100cc in the same frame configuration but this becomes rational so they could enter in every class and get exposure! - Interesting thing to me is, if we could bored out 125's out 0.250" (YES that's inches - NOT mm...) with plenty of room for seizing them up and going up from there, I wonder, was the 125cc jug used for another class or classes as well? That sure would make sense why so much real estate was given in the bore. Maybe a 175 and 200cc? God only knows, anyhow thanks a million for that MS; it made my day and I hope it did not absorb too much of your time doing it. One day after the BMW is FULLY resurrected, maybe I will have my chance to grab a piece of my childhood and really motorcycle racing memorabilia as I am quite sure RUPP was done with M/C's and I think bankrupt entirely within a year or so of then - at least they stopped making M/C's..

I decided after Robert's and some other comments I need just return to how we would do things in college - draft, collect data, then whittle it down in relevance - compact it. I hate losing meaning and intent and often when I do that I miss something and it makes my statement(either flat out wrong or misleading and vague, but at least they are not so long.) I have no better solution at this point. Thanks to everyone for your help from BMW's to RUPPS and as well my character flaws, for I assuredly have more of them than many or most. Cutting my thoughts and writings down are really tough for me in for the most part only in writing at least and if you look about, many of the posts that either become vague enough to appear wrong, or just simply are/become wrong, are pretty short. They likely began as a ream of paper, so I am working on this for everyone, not just myself.

Cheers
1971 R75/5 (SWB)
If you're going to hire MACHETE to kill the bad guy, you better make damn sure the bad guy isn't YOU!
Major Softie
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by Major Softie »

Well, I know I've seen '77 Rupp snowmobiles, but I don't know how much longer they lasted. They were gone shortly after I left high school (75).

Note: Okay, I looked it up, and '78 was the last model year for the snowmobiles and the company. Mickey Rupp sold it in '73, Artic Cat kind of sucked it up in 77, and it died in '78. Here's a nice concise history page, but, being a snowmobile website, it doesn't mention the MX bike.
http://www.oldrupps.com/RuppHistory/RuppHistory.html


Oh, and on the research in the above posts, you can see by the times of my posts that I spent about 17 minutes on that, so not to worry about time invested. Besides, it brought back memories of my own. :D
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dwire
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Re: 1976 RUPP 125cc Motocross Racing Bike

Post by dwire »

That's interesting; I did know they were much further into the snowmobile market than anything else (both companies according to what everyone would tell me, for most disputed more so that there ever was a M/C to have a SACHS racing engine on it...) and I did not know they were sort of integrated into Arctic Cat, which while I know zero about snowmobiles and such, aren't they one of the few long term companies sill making successful snowmobiles?

I guess what is most interesting is that my timeline was and is pretty well correct. All of those bikes could be dated somehow, (we had all the parts books and catalogs that were useless since EVERYTHING WAS NLA!) but I do not recall how we actually dated the tiny bikes. Though keep in mind we got what was left of an entire dealership's crappy floor, but as well, all the junk people had trashed and left behind either for a new bike or to aoid payment on its diagnosis or what have you. So we got hundreds of the junk small little kiddie dirt bikes; anything of any value had been sold off or taken before I ever knew about it or they had been taken out to this barn for storage. Just so happened he had one of the 1976's - that RMX 125 and if it were not for my boss (a friend's father) scooping one up out on a country road 80 or so miles from home one afternoon, I'd have never had that sort of fun. It was funny too to see the older kids riding on Shriner bikes while me, the littlest and youngest kid of any of them doing fun and crazy stuff on that ordinary "man" size 125cc beauty.

Anyway, I kept that thing clean. The only issue we had was that the magneto/electronic ignition unit we only had a single unit and it needed replaced (it was all sealed and potted together as a red doughnut under a cup shaped flywheel with the magnets on the inside of it,) but, the Delorto (non CV) slide carb was fine (first slide I had ever seen and rebuilt) and everything was A-OK, but if you did not want to break your foot on the kick starter getting nowhere, you needed to drag the thing behind something to get it started. I always then and still today maintain the coil(s) inside the doughnut shaped ignition unit were likely to have had the windings broken down in them, or some of them shorted rather well as I could take a "real" spark gauge to it and it would not jump the sort of 1/2" gap we would see out of any simple lawnmower or chainsaw; an occasional anemic yellow spark that is no good at all once under compression.

Don, the boss had an old lawn tractor that one could pull it up fast enough and dump the clutch in second gear and take off, or since there was a turn in the highway right by the house that was banked, if you felt lucky, you could push it up to the top of the road and try and get it going the same way; only just running and picking up speed from the grade in the road. It was funny as due to this, we had to keep fresh mix of gasoline all day to not have to go through that. I had let it idle before as I got lunch in my belly (looking back, maybe not too smart, but they had great fins on at least the top of the heads; I thought the sides were better than those pics, but maybe not...) Anyhow, blast from the past and something I learned a great deal from - from everything about life to say welding. A project like that at that young of age with no outside intervention other than - "Here, here is the spark plug you asked for..." is something I think hard to duplicate. It could have been any project, but that it was my own to make the right or wrong choices with and learn lessons first hand at a young age - that is I think a great deal of what the new "PlayStation" generations are lacking... OK that and a lot more too! :mrgreen:
1971 R75/5 (SWB)
If you're going to hire MACHETE to kill the bad guy, you better make damn sure the bad guy isn't YOU!
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