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Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:50 pm
by Seth
I’m lucky enough to have a tire machine for car tires and bought the motorcycle wheel adapters (often not needed) and also use the lube meant for the job. Great stuff. Wasn’t going to say anything because I’m sure most of you are doing it by hand, but after Wobbly’s post, I decided to back up his opinion.
I did many tires for years with tire irons and still use them with tubes and tried lots of lubricants from dish soap to silicone. Just installed a pair of runflat tires on a buddy’s BMW car tonight. Even with my machine, it’s a tough job but the lube helps a lot, especially when seating the bead.
Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:52 pm
by richard t
I had a run flat repaired on our BMW suv the boys fixing the tire, I know them, were doing a lot of mumbling under there breath as the fixed it
Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:06 pm
by Beemerboff
My guy, who is a ex race mechanic, doesnt even use irons on most bike tires - he stands on the tire and inches backwards round the rim with his heels pushing the bead down with his heels.
Sometimes this gets it fitted all the way, but if not he has a carpenters mallet which is beveled at one end and he gives the last bit of the bead a decent sort of whack to get it over the rim.
Both beads down in the correct section on the well and plenty of tire fitting lube too, off course.
Takes him around 20 seconds to do, and, as long as you hit the tire and not the rim,no pinch flats or damage or markings to the rim - which is important in a pro shop.
Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:10 am
by Beemerboff
Just had to replace the Pilot Active on my R75/7 with another of the same and it made me realize that things have changed.
I ordered a tube type, but a tubeless one arrived.
On the sidewall it instructed that you fit a tube if needed. A phone call elicited the information that that was all they stocked, just fit a tube and it will be fine, and that the tubeless ones were the same tire anyway.
Yes, probably, but tubeless tires are stiffer, stronger and tighter in the rim/ bead area, and the days of spooning them off and on with the two little levers in the tool kit are long gone.
Or walking them round the rim with your heels-------------.
Main problem was squeezing the beads together so that they sat down in the fitting well and stayed there.
I ended up cutting packers out of 1" plywood and squeezing the beads between them with the 6" G clamps/Quickgrips which I had used to break the bead.
Then it was a case of progressively levering the smallest amount possible over the rim, followed up with another clamp and packer to get a little more of the bead into the well, and so on at not much more than an inch at a time.
So, two hours after I started the old one is off, cut into quarters and in the bin, and the new one is holding air.
And levering/booting a Spitfire on in ten minutes with just the two levers in the tool kit is just a distant memory!
Upside is that the beads probably have a better grip on the rim so in the event of a puncture might stay there a bit longer and give you more chance to stop safely.
Downside is it is just about a workshop only job.
My local guy fits and balances tires free if you pay list or charges $25- to fit yours, and next time he can have the job , hardest $25- I have ever earned!
Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 am
by Airbear
O yes, I had always fitted my own tyres until the first experience of fitting a Pilot Activ rear. The carcase is very stiff, and as you note the well doesn't seem wide enough to get the beads in. Now I'm happy to get my supplier to fit the tyres.
A couple of years ago ME109 and I were about 35kms up a rough mountain track when Jeff picked up a 3 inch nail in his rear PA. That's ok we thought; we have the technology to fix it. I always carry a patch kit, a pump, an extra long lever as well as the small ones in the toolkit plus a new rear tube, just in case. We did manage to get going using the new tube (there were at least 3 holes in the punctured one). Breaking the bead was fun; we used a long branch hooked under a fallen tree as a lever and a convenient rock on the tyre wall. The long tyre lever was a necessity - I keep it wrapped in a rag in the frame backbone. My pump is a 'Stop n Go' - it fits into a spark plug thread and is valved to push fresh air into the tyre while running the starter motor a few minutes at a time. This was its first use and it worked well, though it took about 20 minutes to get 25 psi into the new tube and we had no chance of seating the beads properly. At least Jeff was able to carefully ride the 80 or so kms to a servo and a proper compressor.
I really like the Pilot Activs. They last well, maintaining their shape and grip for around 9000kms on the rear and 12000kms on the front. Wet road grip is very good in my experience.
Re: Tubes For Tires...
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:58 pm
by gspd
This topic is one that compelled me to log back in after being away for so long.
BMW Cross-spoke rims are intended for tubeless tires. Period. Any leaks could only originate from around the valve (or valve core) or around the bead (assuming the tire itself is good). Often the bead seating area inside the rim becomes very corroded; this causes most slow leaks. The insides of the those rims MUST always be PERFECTLY cleaned (with a wire brush or something similar) and well lubed. Pay particular attention for corrosion around the valve stem hole and check the condition of the sealing washers/o-rings.
Personal experience: I was booting along at approx 100 mph and suddenly got a severe wobble from the rear end. I pulled over to the side of highway. I observed that my rear tire was literally as flat as a pancake. It had a 3/8 inch in diameter hole right in the middle of the tread. I could not repair it with my plug kit; 3 plugs together were not enough to block that huge hole. The tire could never be safely repaired anyways, so I decided to ride it slowly about 3 miles back to my house. I trudged along at about 25-30 mph on the sidewalls of a totally flat tire, it sort of felt like I was riding in deep sand. The sidewalls were getting really chewed up between the pavement and the rim. At no time did the tire unseat itself from the rim.
I cannot conceive any reason to use tubes in tubeless tires. Tubes will cause more heat buildup, make repairing a normal puncture an ordeal and increase unsprung weight significantly. No amount of suspension tuning can compensate for the very noticeable negative effects of that extra weight.
BTW - Would anyone here ever retrofit tubes to their new car tires?
Hey! airbear dude!
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 pm
by gspd
Airbear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 am
"My pump is a 'Stop n Go' - it fits into a spark plug thread and is valved to push fresh air into the tyre while running the starter motor a few minutes at a time. This was its first use and it worked well, though it took about 20 minutes to get 25 psi into the new tube and we had no chance of seating the beads properly."
DUDE! Try this next time...
1) Screw the hose to your 'stop n go' pump to either spark plug hole.
2) Cut off the fuel to that carb by pinching its gas line or sticking a crumpled kleenex in the float bowl (to hold the float closed).
3) Re-insert the spark plug into its cap and rest it on clean metal ground of head or barrel fin (this will prevent blowing your coil from firing an open circuit)
4) Start the bike and rev it on the working cylinder
The above procedure will fill your tire up to in a seconds and will provide enough pressure to seat the bead.
Theoretically it should easily pump up to over 100psi, but I would not recommend that.
It will also save a lot of time, and more importantly, it will save a lot of wear and tear on your battery, starter and electrical system.
you're welcome
Re: Hey! airbear dude!
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:33 pm
by Airbear
gspd wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 pm
DUDE! Try this next time...
1) Screw the hose to your 'stop n go' pump to either spark plug hole.
2) Cut off the fuel to that carb by pinching its gas line or sticking a crumpled kleenex in the float bowl (to hold the float closed).
3) Re-insert the spark plug into its cap and rest it on clean metal ground of head or barrel fin (this will prevent blowing your coil from firing an open circuit)
4) Start the bike and rev it on the working cylinder
The above procedure will fill your tire up to in a seconds and will provide enough pressure to seat the bead.
Theoretically it should easily pump up to over 100psi, but I would not recommend that.
It will also save a lot of time, and more importantly, it will save a lot of wear and tear on your battery, starter and electrical system.
you're welcome
Thanks for that GSPD. I have wondered if that is possible. It's contrary to the instructions that came with the 'Stop n Go' pump but I can't see why it wouldn't work. I'll try it next time, though I hope there won't be a next time. I carry this stuff as insurance against ever needing it, if you get my drift.