Oil and ZDDP (yes, another oil thread)

[dwire]

No comment otherwise, but I do know better than this:

[Major Softie]

No comment otherwise, but I do know better than this:

Those numbers seemed a bit conservative to me as well, but you KNOW? How do you know? Are you certain that there is zero change in those products in that time? I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, because, as I said, those time periods seemed short to me, but that's not the same as KNOWING. If the additive package can become a gelatinous mass at the bottom of a quart of oil, it seems to me that there must be a point some time before that where the oil is not going to perform as originally planned, and it would not be so obvious.

[dwire]

It is not easy to have a short answer for the question. Testing ordinarily is where the empirical data and evidence for such things come from. Even though there are published specs from many rating agencies, manufacturers, vendors, "institutes" etc. NONE THAT I AM AWARE OF TAKE THE PRODUCT(S) UNDER TEST AND LET THEM SIT IN CONTROLLED STORAGE, LIKE THEY WERE PROPERLY STORED IN A RETAIL SETTING OR MY CHEMICAL CABINET IN THE SHOP, etc. for 5 to 10 years. The product would be obsolete by then as both oils and the devices they are used in would likely change and or become obsolete.

I have a transfer case that uses one of the listed hydraulic fluids as a lubricant/coolant. According to the OEM, the lubricant is good for the service life of both the case as well as the unit for which it is installed. According to that chart, that would mean it goes bad sitting in a container stored properly doing nothing faster than it does under the extreme forces it sees in service. This sort of thing makes one doubt the chart; unless they've designed new containers that purposely and in a controlled manner destroy the product stored in them...

All you could do is test some oil that actually has been properly stored for a very long time to know - that is unlikely to happen. So, you have two choices. One, you can be safe and throw it out (please recycle it) OR better yet, if it is a lubricant I use, I'll pay for the shipping and you can send it to me by the case load once it is three years old.

All too often, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is most likely a duck. If ANY OIL, even right off of the bottling fill lines has "crap" in the bottom of the bottle - it likely is no good. I suppose there are a few exceptions - things I'd never put in anything anyway (like Bar's Stop-Leak... )although I cannot readily think of any - AND NONE ON THAT LIST!

The best part of that website's Biblical prophecies (it IS called the Engine Oil Bible...) is that story about the Castrol with the crap in the bottom. So, they put it in anyway - then NO ONE EVALUATES HOW IT DID IN THE ENGINE AT THE NEXT OIL CHANGE??? WTF? Someone is not using their brain-power at all. It is entirely irrelevant to mention the event. It could even be irrelevant if the engine blew up. If those people in the garage had enough interest, they'd have bought the fella new oil and investigated further with the suspect oil through real testing; it is not often anyone in a lab gets the opportunity to evaluate such things; we would have killed for such a sample of a mysterious, suspect product due to age - but only if we could be certain of the environment it had been subjected to in its storage time; something often not too likely. They did not even bother to call Castrol and check the batch number either; it could have been crap from the factory; from the description that sounded highly likely. Go figure.

Anyhow, fire at will. I most certainly will not recommend anyone go beyond the chart; for one of the primary reasons that chart or those figures exist at all - CYA! I will gladly accept anyone's "expired" oils though...

[George Ryals]

I can't beleive the obsession with oil. I use the least expensive national brand 20W-50 at the nearest place that sells oil. Lately it has been Kendall. I've never had a bearing failure, wiped cam, ruined flat tappet or any other failure related to oil. I ride year around and change oil in the fall and spring, regardless of mileage. ZDDP be damned.

[Major Softie]

I can't beleive the obsession with oil. I use the least expensive national brand 20W-50 at the nearest place that sells oil. Lately it has been Kendall. I've never had a bearing failure, wiped cam, ruined flat tappet or any other failure related to oil. I ride year around and change oil in the fall and spring, regardless of mileage. ZDDP be damned.

This is a pretty new problem, especially in the higher viscosity oils. So, behavior that has worked for the last 40 years may not work in the future. IOW's, your successful history is no indication of the future. BUT, there is nothing you can do to make your motor last that is as important as frequent oil changes, so sticking to that part will hopefully keep your success going.

[dwire]

All things being equal, my experience has always led me to believe that regardless of what you put in an engine, frequent changes is the most important metric of any compatible oil that the owner or mechanic can control...

[Bob Distelcamp]

So I am to gather that Mobile 1 is the best Oil for my R100RS.
Also what would be best for my TRANS and rear drive?????

Thanks Bob D

[Roy Gavin]

At the last count the guys on Bob is the oil guy liked Valvoline VR1 , a 20/50 "race" Dino with a heavy duty additive package including plenty of zinc,and sometimes available for $2.60 a quart, or 10/40 Shell Rotella or the synth Rotella T, which is a heavy duty diesel oil , again with a heavy duty package to suit turbo diesels, and not a bad price in 20 quart drums.

My favorite, Mobil 1, has just recently gone out of fashion.The guys on Bobs have an oil analysis done after every oil change, and lately there have been too many samples of M1 showing elevated FE, or iron, for their liking.

When asked about this, the Mobil guy is evasive and unconvincing, so sounds as if there have been changes to M1 for the worse.

And this will probably affect some of the high priced specialty oils, which are little more than re badged M1.

The package in Castrol GTX isn't bad either, there just isn't a lot of it. Changed at 2500 miles instead of 5000 it is fine, and you have the bonus of fresh clean full viscosity oil too.

[SteveD]

So I am to gather that Mobile 1 is the best Oil for my R100RS. No. If it was, it seems not anymore, not that it ever was!
Also what would be best for my TRANS and rear drive????? Synth or semi synth for trans...but a 80w90 GL5 for the shaft and drive.
Thanks Bob D Pleasure