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Major Softie wrote:Run the tires suggested in the owner's manual.

What if I don't have an owner's manual? When I bought my R1200R (OK it's not an oilhead but you know what I mean) it didn't come with anything: no tools, no owners manual, no bags, no nuttin' except the bike itself.

I'm running Michelin Road Pilot 2's. Those are definitely the best tires for an R1200R. Hell, they might be the best tires ever, for any vehicle!

Major - - Not that anyone probably cares anymore but here is my, hopefully, not overly pedantic response to at least some of your points:

The word "must": You've simply over-analyzed my comment. I didn't intend for it to be taken as a directive but, if you did, fine. You win. It's a trivial point having little to do with the subject at hand.

Amsoil prices as of four months ago... 20W-50 syn motor oil, $8.85 and 80W-90 syn gear lube, $7.70. Shipping one case of motor oil and four quarts gear lube to Georgia was $15.79 or $.99 per quart. Preferred Customer total savings to me compared with retail for this shipment was $41.00. $41.00 minus $20.00 Preferred Customer fee = $21.00 actually saved over retail for this one shipment. Plus, the P.C. fee is good for one year, meaning I'll be able to utilize the P.C. prices again, further amortizing the $20.00 fee. Last time I looked, my closest BMW dealer charged $12.50/qt plus sales tax (7% here) for comparable motor oil which works out to $13.39 per quart. To get this oil to my garage, I'm either going to have to drive to the dealer or have him ship it, thus incurring more costs. Amsoil works out to $8.85 + $.99 shipping fee per qt. + $1.25 in initial P.C. fees (16 quarts divided into $20.00) = $11.09. More than $2.00 cheaper than the BMW oil with sales tax and probably closer to $3.00 cheaper than BMW oil when you throw in the cost of driving to get it or having it shipped. Okay, maybe not WAY cheaper than BMW oil but at least "significantly" cheaper in my view. Plus, again, I can use the P.C. advantage for a year and since I'll be ordering more product during that time, the cost per unit will come down some more. Concerning the gear lube, the dealer here wants $16.50 + 7% sales tax = $17.66 per quart. Driving to get it or paying shipping would drive the cost up even more. Comparable Amsoil gear lube was $7.70/qt. + $.99 shipping + $1.25 in initial P.C. fees = $9.94/qt. This IS way less than the comparable BMW product and, again, the P.C. advantage is good for a year, meaning that subsequent purchases during that time period will further amortize the $20.00 shipping fee.

Concerning the 75W-90 vs 75W-140 syn gear oil issue: Glaves may have written that both are acceptable based on what BMW Customer Service has said at some point. However, he has also written that he doesn't recommend 75W-140 in oilhead rear drives and he has stated that it could have been a contributory factor in rear drive failures that he has seen. Maybe he didn't use the word "linked" and I'm not going to dig out my old BMW Owner's News magazines to find out exactly what word he actually did use but I'm not going to use a product that has, at least in my mind, a cloud hanging over it when it is not even recommended in the Owner's Manual and when there are alternatives available.

So, you're using their regular automotive oil, or their motorcycle oil?

The gear oil price is certainly much cheaper. On the oil, I suspect the shipping would hurt me more, being further away. You're right that the fee isn't as big a hindrance if you buy enough product, but it wouldn't work out well for me. Only Roc can know what works for him.

I'm using Amsoil 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil. There ARE a lot of variables, though, in comparing BMW lubes with Amsoil, i.e., shipping costs, amortizing the P.C. yearly fee, actual cost charged by the BMW dealer (apparently it varies), sales tax in one's own area, distance to the dealer.

Major Softie wrote:So, you're using their regular automotive oil, or their motorcycle oil?

I use regular 'ol Valvoline 10W50, haven't had any problems. What is the difference between automotive / motorcycle oil?

Steve in Golden wrote:

Major Softie wrote:So, you're using their regular automotive oil, or their motorcycle oil?

I use regular 'ol Valvoline 10W50, haven't had any problems. What is the difference between automotive / motorcycle oil?

Oh god...

Major Softie wrote:

Steve in Golden wrote:

Major Softie wrote:So, you're using their regular automotive oil, or their motorcycle oil?

I use regular 'ol Valvoline 10W50, haven't had any problems. What is the difference between automotive / motorcycle oil?

Oh god...

Nice informative answer Major!

So I went and Googled it and this article says you shouldn't use automotive oil in a MC due to friction modifiers. Friction modifiers will cause problems for wet clutches. OK... No problem for my R1200R since it has a dry clutch. Any other reason why I shouldn't do this?

The True Difference Between Motorcycle Oil and Automotive Oil

Steve in Golden wrote: Nice informative answer Major!

So I went and Googled it and this article says you shouldn't use automotive oil in a MC due to friction modifiers. Friction modifiers will cause problems for wet clutches. OK... No problem for my R1200R since it has a dry clutch. Any other reason why I shouldn't do this?

The True Difference Between Motorcycle Oil and Automotive Oil

Yes.

The EPA has mandated great reductions in anti-wear ingredients over the past couple decades. These ingredients apparently are very bad for catalytic converters, even in the small amounts that travel through the exhaust. This has led to some older motors having problems with things like cam follower wear, not just in motorcycles, but older Porsche motors and other solid tappet automotive engines have reportedly had a lot of trouble. Modern motors, motorcycle and automotive, have been designed to survive fine with these new oils, so it probably matters a lot more for an Airhead than a Hexhead, and who knows where Oilheads fall in that. Anyway, motorcycle oils still have higher amounts of these ingredients - at least for now. Since motorcycles are now often being fitted with catalytic converters, the EPA will likely force the reduction of these ingredients in motorcycle oils too, but that hasn't happened yet.

My R1200R has a catalytic converter, as did my R1150R.

I used to put plain 'ol Valvoline in my airheads too, when I had airheads. I didn't know any better!

Here is what the R1200R owner's manual (I scored a PDF copy of it off of another web site) says about "Oil Grades":

Engine oils of API classification SF or better.
Engine oils of ACEA classification A2 or better.
BMW Motorrad recommends not using synthetic
oils for the first 10,000 km. Please do not
hesitate to contact your authorised BMW
Motorrad dealer if you have any questions relating
the choice of a suitable engine oil for your
motorcycle.

"A suitable engine oil for your motorcycle" probably means BMW brand oil for $20.00 a quart or some such. It's not clear to me if they mean I should use the same oil as one would in a car, or if I should use motorcycle oil.

Thanks to all for your replies. I didn't mean to start a war here, although I know questions about oil have a tendency to do that...was just looking for some basic ideas about what will work and what won't.

My service and technical says the following:

"Brand name HD oil, API classification SF, SG or SH; CD or CE suffixes are permissable; alternatively, brand-name HD oil CCMC classificationG4 or G5; extension PD2 is permissable."

So the recommendation to use what the manual recommends is really not very helpful...the manual is pretty vague.

I can tell you from checking in the auto parts stores that there aren't many API SF, SG or SH oils there, although just about everyone, including Walmart, has what I would term an HD (heavy-duty?) oil...the Rotella T6 I mentioned earlier. I am aware that auto synthetics are not a good choice for motorcycles with wet clutches...but that is not our case...

At the moment, I'm just as confused as when I started. Thanks for trying to help. I'll figure it out eventually...just hope I don't hurt the bike in the meantime...