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Steve in Golden wrote:Did she survive? I hope so.

She was alive when I left the scene after leaving my name and number with the young bloke who hit her. I later gave evidence that it was entirely her fault and that he could not possibly have avoided her. He was "P" plate driver ( a license less than 2 years )and as such probably not as good as scanning as an older driver. Me .

I saw her on the footpath cos she was cute and also saw her just peel out across the pedestrian crossing into 2 lanes of traffic doing 55km/hr. I would have hit her too, maybe a bit slower is all.

Zombie Master wrote:It reminds me of the riders that wear all kinds of Hi-Viz gear. They ride as if people can see them. It's a nice notion, but not an operational concept for rider safety. Riders just need to believe, with evangelical conviction, that they are invisible when riding a motorcycle. That is the way. I believe.

You are correct .Eye contact helps but certainly is no guarantee.

I often assume that if they do see me, then they will try to kill me. That has saved me more than once.

Zombie Master wrote:It reminds me of the riders that wear all kinds of Hi-Viz gear. They ride as if people can see them. It's a nice notion, but not an operational concept for rider safety. Riders just need to believe, with evangelical conviction, that they are invisible when riding a motorcycle. That is the way. I believe.

I don't think all people who wear Hi-Viz gear ride in any certain pattern or with any commonality of mind set. That sounds like a lame excuse of an argument against Hi-Viz gear. Generally, I think most people who ride in it are just giving themselves every advantage they can.

Chuey

Edit: changed third to last word to advantage.

Chuey wrote: I don't think all people who wear Hi-Viz gear ride in any certain pattern or with any commonality of mind set. That sounds like a lame excuse of an argument against Hi-Viz gear. Generally, I think most people who ride in it are just giving themselves every advantage they can.

Chuey

I've witnessed plenty of the Hi-Viz riders barreling through intersections, resplendent bright green with blinding, and annoying headlights modulating, where I would go through with much more trepidation. Of course I know I am invisible, so I expect no quarter. No one here has made any argument against Hi-Viz gear. My gear is rich with reflective materials. I don't count on it even a wee bit.

So, if I wear hi-viz gear, I don't have to worry about motorists seeing me. Just like, if I am on foot and cross the street at a marked cross walk, I don't have to bother looking for traffic. I know all the cars will stop for me, since I am in the protected zone.

Zombie Master wrote: I've witnessed plenty of the Hi-Viz riders barreling through intersections, resplendent bright green with blinding, and annoying headlights modulating, where I would go through with much more trepidation. Of course I know I am invisible, so I expect no quarter. No one here has made any argument against Hi-Viz gear. My gear is rich with reflective materials. I don't count on it even a wee bit.

I suppose we agree with each other to some degree. However, even though you say you haven't made an argument against Hi-Viz gear, you have made a statement that those wearing Hi-Viz gear ride as if they do not need to be concerned about other motorists. That just doesn't even make sense. It is wrong because it assumes that wearing a certain type of clothing will make riders act the same as others who wear that same type of clothing. It is a drab generalization that will not hold up to reason. Your statement shows a disdain for certain clothing and a bias that allows you to dismiss them. That is what I am responding to.

Wear what you like but please consider that I've seen plenty of riders wearing all kinds of gear, from Hi-Viz with full face helmet to flip flops and t-shirts and shorts ride both as if they had a death wish and as if they know what they are up against.

Chuey

Chuey wrote:

I suppose we agree with each other to some degree. However, even though you say you haven't made an argument against Hi-Viz gear, you have made a statement that those wearing Hi-Viz gear ride as if they do not need to be concerned about other motorists. That just doesn't even make sense. It is wrong because it assumes that wearing a certain type of clothing will make riders act the same as others who wear that same type of clothing.
Chuey

Actually, Chuey, he made that statement that riders with the high viz gear ride that way, and that he rides differently then they do. Then he told us that his gear is covered with high viz.

Riders in high viz ride a certain way
ZM does not ride that way
ZM wears high viz

Socrates must be spinning in his grave.

Major Softie wrote:

Chuey wrote:

I suppose we agree with each other to some degree. However, even though you say you haven't made an argument against Hi-Viz gear, you have made a statement that those wearing Hi-Viz gear ride as if they do not need to be concerned about other motorists. That just doesn't even make sense. It is wrong because it assumes that wearing a certain type of clothing will make riders act the same as others who wear that same type of clothing.
Chuey

Actually, Chuey, he made that statement that riders with the high viz gear ride that way, and that he rides differently then they do. Then he told us that his gear is covered with high viz.

Riders in high viz ride a certain way
ZM does not ride that way
ZM wears high viz

Sophocles must be spinning in his grave.

Can't imagine what Sophocles has to do with this subject. Please explain.

As an instructor, senior instructor, chief instructor, and program manager for motorcycle rider training, I have been taught to observe and analyze rider behavior. I have seen numerous riders that have made large investments in high viz products for their bikes ride in a less defensive manner. They are counting on the observation skills of untrained, unconcerned, and inattentive car operators that are ubiquitous on North American roadways. The are deluded.

I do not bother with Hi-Viz for that EXACT reason (I do not want to "put any stock" in it), I keep in mind that EVERYONE on the road is OBLIVIOUS to me (or actively dislikes me) and ride accordingly.
The number of wheels under them MEANS NOTHING!, I went to the Lone Star Rally in Galveston, Texas last year and was HORRIFIED at seeing drunks on 2 wheels playing with electronics while riding!! I got out of there as fast as I could.

Vince