Boxerworks.com

mattcfish wrote:

dougie wrote:Great price - if it is an Ohlins and not a copy.

I doubt the sticker is even genuin.

Yes, the ad very carefully makes sure they NEVER say that it is an Ohlins damper, only a free Ohlins sticker. I too doubt that even the sticker is genuine.

we the unit was non working it had decent habits after rework not over priced but worked as I thought a stock one should

BUT that bike never once needed it ,I would show it as a working thing which moved some riders, some will point to a newer type which I'm useing now....... I'm joneing for the one I fixed

all I can say as second hand sellers upset me then and NOW when I finally sorted and sold my 1974 R90/6 S'ed the newower never changed it and rode it to end.....................

To compliment my new front end, I've got a Scotts/Ohlins damper/stabilizer set up for my G/S build. I can't say how it actually works yet because I haven't used it yet! It is fully adjustable for slow and high speed circuits (of damping).
Stagehand on adv races a 100GS with one and loves it. Offroad they are meant to be very helpful in dirt, ruts, sand, rock hits, etc, etc. Helps the bike just track through all sorts of stuff. On road or track they should stop headshake and even tank slappers.
Referred to by some as 'the hand of god'
For these Scotts stabilisers you can get the 'road' or 'offroad' version- the road version dampens two ways and the offroad only dampens away from centre. I got the road version- I'd read review after review- people happy with both, both work a little different. Some have said the road version damping both ways is better for heavy bikes- that stuck with me and is why I got that version.

After a lot of searching, watching and sniping I bought the damper only, used, on US ebay for pretty cheap (just over $100- yep that is cheap for one of these) and then got the kit to mount it from a guy on adv called HPMguy. I am not sure what airheads he has figured out how to mount these on- definitely stock GS's- and also ones with custom triple clamps like mine (which he also made).
Basically to mount it you need the pin-tower which clamps onto the headstock on the frame (HPMguy makes these himself) then you need a long pin, then you need some sort of mount for the damper on your top triple clamps, and an arm off the bottom of the damper to connect to the pin in the pin tower...
The older style was an over the bar mount, the newer style is a sub-bar mount. I got lucky and got the exact BRP submount I needed for my triples on local ebay for very cheap.
Anyway, its all pretty involved if you want to get one of these on an airhead, and a bit different for different airheads I suppose (dependent on your top triple clamp), but they are a very well regarded unit.

I've had a few scary moments on the 90/6, particularly in the dirt when loaded with gear, that made me pretty keen to try one of these on the G/S.
Of course it may be all a bit unnecessary- but unnecessary is pretty much what my whole G/S build founded upon

After working with the two types of steering damper used on the older BMW motorcycles, friction and hydraulic, neither works well. In theory the best is hydraulic, but the version on the R69S was fraught with play in the linkage.

What every you use, it must have no play. It must dampen with the slightest movement of the forks. Directly bolted onto fixed brackets will work.

ontic wrote:To compliment my new front end, I've got a Scotts/Ohlins damper/stabilizer set up for my G/S build. I can't say how it actually works yet because I haven't used it yet! It is fully adjustable for slow and high speed circuits (of damping).
Stagehand on adv races a 100GS with one and loves it. Offroad they are meant to be very helpful in dirt, ruts, sand, rock hits, etc, etc. Helps the bike just track through all sorts of stuff. On road or track they should stop headshake and even tank slappers.
Referred to by some as 'the hand of god'
For these Scotts stabilisers you can get the 'road' or 'offroad' version- the road version dampens two ways and the offroad only dampens away from centre. I got the road version- I'd read review after review- people happy with both, both work a little different. Some have said the road version damping both ways is better for heavy bikes- that stuck with me and is why I got that version.

After a lot of searching, watching and sniping I bought the damper only, used, on US ebay for pretty cheap (just over $100- yep that is cheap for one of these) and then got the kit to mount it from a guy on adv called HPMguy. I am not sure what airheads he has figured out how to mount these on- definitely stock GS's- and also ones with custom triple clamps like mine (which he also made).
Basically to mount it you need the pin-tower which clamps onto the headstock on the frame (HPMguy makes these himself) then you need a long pin, then you need some sort of mount for the damper on your top triple clamps, and an arm off the bottom of the damper to connect to the pin in the pin tower...
The older style was an over the bar mount, the newer style is a sub-bar mount. I got lucky and got the exact BRP submount I needed for my triples on local ebay for very cheap.
Anyway, its all pretty involved if you want to get one of these on an airhead, and a bit different for different airheads I suppose (dependent on your top triple clamp), but they are a very well regarded unit.

I've had a few scary moments on the 90/6, particularly in the dirt when loaded with gear, that made me pretty keen to try one of these on the G/S.
Of course it may be all a bit unnecessary- but unnecessary is pretty much what my whole G/S build founded upon

Thanks for all the information. I've looked ino those Scott dampers. I don't have any bars or bar clamps in the way on my bike so I've got lots of top mount options.

no probs,
Do you have clip ons or something? What top clamp do you have?

that might make it pretty easy then,
you could make or adapt a mount for the damper and just attach it in the right position on your top triple. Depending on how you have mounted it and how high, get a flat or a stepped arm, and get a pin tower and a long pin from HPMguy.

there are plenty of different mounts to pick from which you could adapt- just do a google image search- a lot of this (incomplete damper mounting) stuff is cheap on ebay.





For mounting it, the shaft on the bottom of the damper needs to be mounted directly above the centre of the stem/steering tube.

Typically the top mount position changes the orientation of the damper 180 degrees for the top or sub mount positions- there are arm pullers which pull the arm off the shaft and you then press it back on the other way. You'd probably have the choice of mounting it either way.



I think one of the attractions of the submount position was that it kept the damper lower down more out of harms way and out of YOUR harms way- some of the top mounts had the damper really sticking up out in front of you, kinda like a sharp metal fist waiting for you to launch your chest at it

here is the manual for the damper with more mounting and using instructions and a lot more,
http://www.scottsonline.com/litrack/257.pdf

I watched ebay for a long time. In good condition, $150 was a good buy for them, though not very common. $200-ish more realistic. I got mine a fair bit cheaper than that ($120-ish IIRC) because it had a very incomplete mounting kit and I suppose I just got a lucky snipe.
There are plenty of other brands of damper like this, some with different features, but nothing quite with the universal support that the Öhlins/Scotts ones seem to have (I figure they've been around for a long time now, there are many of them around, and they will remain servicable for a long time).

And for Duane, yes, these dampers have no play- if mounted correctly- and they dampen with the slightest movement with complete adjustability (from imperceptible to too hard). There are three adjustment circuits- the base (or slow speed) valve, that effects the general feel of the bars- the high speed valve which effects the big fast effects on the bike and the sweep control which effects the range that the damper takes effect (ie at what point of turning the handlebars there is zero effect).
Although I have fitted mine I will be removing it again until I get my new front end sorted out properly- then start playing with it.

I have only ridden with stock steering dampers, so know little about it. When new, the R69S steering dampers were tight and had no play. With the damper on, the bike would not allow one to steer where you wanted, but very close. One would be in a continuous curve. If someone set a coin in front of the bike 50 ft, you probably couldn't hit it, but one could come close, very close. Many don't notice this curve, but they always made me quite nervous. I have had to demonstrate that a rider couldn't hit the coin, even though they were sure that they could.

A steering damper makes the bike feel almost the same as a bike with notched steering bearings in that it "hunts" around.

The main thing is that if the bike is stable, there is no need for a steering damper on a solo bike. Especially the Earles fork models, as that front end is quite forgiving and stable.

On the friction type (R50/R60) that is set to tightly, they can develope a weave, which can be just as dangerous as a wobble. These dampers require some feel to adjust them to safe riding.

Duane, with all due respect, you are talking about 60 year-old technology as though it is today's technology.

It is not.

You might just as well say that you can't expect a manufacturer to get 100 hp out of a 650. Times change.

Hi Duane,
I've done a fair bit of research into the newer ones, but haven't used mine yet (aside from garage testing ), and have no experience of the older ones, so I don't have a lot to add other than theory.

Suffice to say, the old hydraulic as you describe and the newer (such as the Scotts I have) dampers sound very very different. I wonder if there was high and low speed damping on those old ones, or if they just had something in the middle (basic linear damping?) Sounds like they were damping pretty heavily if they effected steering that much- and if it was purlely linear damping then I imagine they would have had to dampen pretty heavily in the middle to be at all effective at either low or high speed movements.
Like the upgrades in suspension that have occurred over the same periods (cartridges and valves with tunable shim stacking instead of simple damper rods and orifces), I would guess that steering dampers have had similar advancements. Ideally on the base valve this would allow one to draw the line where damping begins (so it doesn't noticeably effect 'normal' steering input but does reduce things like headshake) and on the high speed valve you set where and how much it absorbs larger sudden inputs that overwhelm the base valve (but don't overly limit your ability to make sudden steering changes).

On these new adjustable dampers, most people for most riding conditions, seem to set the low speed damping to the point where you can barely feel it. If set right, it still works, when you need it, but unless you have it turned up quite high it should not significantly effect ones ability to hit something like a target with your tyre 50 ft away.
One may want to turn the low speed circuit up for things like sand riding or windy conditions. The high speed damping you won't even notice until you hit a big rock or pothole or something that tries to deflect your wheel- maybe halfway as you are aiming for that coin- it that case, it might actually allow you to stay on track and hit that coin.

The Scotts is somewhat complicated as when you turn the low speed damping down, it makes the high speed damping more sensitive (not sure of the internal mechanism of why this happens). I've read through all sorts of set-up guides and experiences- it seems like small inputs make rather large changes- one needs to experiment a bit. Once you get a good balance between your high and low speed damping you set it there and then after that mostly just tweak the low speed (base valve) dial up or down a click or two for different conditions if or when required.

Like you say, a damper could be used as a band aid for an unstable, badly set up bike. Ideally that is not what people are doing, and not what I am planning to do. My new front end has been re-sprung (custom wound) for this application, and will be re-valved if needs be (though with the adjustable compression and rebound on these forks, and playing with different oil weights, apparently this should not be required).
I intend to get this bike feeling very good before I try the damper, and I know what I want out of the damper once this is done.
It would also seem that there is no 'need' for a steering damper on a solo bike, and many people don't even seem to notice much effect when they put one on.... until they take it off again.
I guess that is the sign of a modern damper that is well set-up- you don't notice it is there until you take it off and re-ride what you have already ridden. Basically they can be a helping hand to keep you stable and on track in challenging situations- too much 'helping hand' may have negative effects, and that is what all the adjustability is for.

While I don't doubt most modern dampers are bought for the farkle/bling element, there are a lot of converts who claim they will never again own a bike without one.
Most rally racers use them, and the Paris Dakar site even goes as far to suggest them

To reduce the risk of high speed 'tank slappers' consider fitting a steering damper. Pick a model that fits either on the top or bottom fork yoke.

http://www.dakar.com/2006/presentation/ ... er_04.html

I'll happily report back on mine when I actually have some saddle time with it, right now I'm kinda talking out my arse

Major Softie wrote:Duane, with all due respect, you are talking about 60 year-old technology as though it is today's technology.

It is not.

You might just as well say that you can't expect a manufacturer to get 100 hp out of a 650. Times change.

MS, this forum is about old bikes. If someone infers that I am talking about new technology on new bikes, then I apologize. I am talking about the old stuff and how it performed.......... only.

I have never ridden a newer bike an never will, as i have no interest. Nothing I ever say applies to anything after about 1980. I think that this is made very clear on my website about the older bikes.