Boxerworks.com

dwire wrote:I must be dumber than the dumb-arses that came up with them. How are they even supposed to work? Aside from maybe allowing you to pull a wheel at one of Ken's big deals around the campfire and use it for a shaker in a sing-along...

Quote:

...Beads can be installed through the valve sistem...

Or you can dump them in the tool tray for the same effectiveness...

Doug, don't sugar coat it, tell us what you really think about these beads.

Doug and I had a very nice long phone conversation last week. It was nice to reconnect.

I recently read an article in one of my auto restoration rags where they tried these beads on a set of wheels they had had previous trouble balancing. Apparently they find their home and stay put via static cling or something. They were able to get the wheel/tire to balance as advertised. Obviously they didn't have any follow up as to whether or not there was any long term side effects. They did show the inside of the tire and the beads appear to stay put once there.

Interesting. It's too bad that was not an online resource we could examine. I guess anything is possible, but think of it in these terms. The beads at slow enough speed would behave just like the laundry in a laundry-mat's front load dryer - swishing and swashing about until the tire reaches a speed that centripetal force is such that they cling "somewhere" on the inside of the tire. My imagination on the topic is not so swell, so I am unsure one could guarantee that they would "NOT" be spread out somewhat in the tire, or when they reach that speed they would have come together in a pile - which to me is the only way they could work properly anyhow - maybe they have ESP and move through the tire and then know where to pile up when physics mandates it???

I'd be interested what their test method was. On a balancing stand like a poor man such as I would be forced to use, it is possible such beads just out of dumb luck, or some strange physics I am not thinking of at the moment might make the wheel appear balanced as the tire would never come to rest in the same spot each time; as these beads have now made the tire be out of balance in a different spot each time? Don't know... Though if you put a M/C wheel on the sort of high-tech balancers used now-a-days for cars and MY GOD the even better ones used by M/C or open wheel racing enthusiasts, I would be SHOCKED if there was any merit to them at all. Just my thinking on the matter. I DO believe what you're saying and that the magazine reported such a hting, I just doubt the magazine's test methods as those beads simply defy, well they defy common sense in my book. And as someone else mentioned as a title to their catchy thread, if forced to have to give up "My left nut" on whether they worked properly and advantageously in any tire and were a viable way of balancing tires, I'd put up a testicle for that one if properly tested with sound methodology and testing equipment... Anyway, not to worry, for these days my testicles see as much use as those beads would in my shop/garage.

Found it...gotta love the web.
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/120 ... index.html
I'm not saying one way or the other, but at least it's a (somewhat) third party opinion. I think the hot setup for these would be a situation where you don't want your rims busted up with conventional weights (enter the story in a rag about hot rods). I dunno, in my mind it makes sense in theory but I'll likely not try them.

Interesting article. I wrote up all that is wrong not only with what and how they did what they did (and mainly what they did not do) I'll not leave it here; if anyone would really like here the "real" story on those beads, I'll have to post it online on one of my servers, which as of late I am considering/contemplating heavily about a adds functionality that would cover many other things, from my /5 restoration to my o2n optimized mic preamp builds...

Think that may be the way to go for me at least, but the one thing we all must fight is time - hardly ever enough of it.

Like I said, I'm neither knocking or supporting them (or the magic balance-in-a-bag beads). It just looked to me, simply, that they put them in the tires, drove it, and noted that they eventually got them to not vibrate while driving. So whether or not scientific process was utilized properly, to say that they don't work at all doesn't seem fair, either-they're just some dudes in a garage who tried a product and reported on the results.

I'm not knocking you nor have I knocked anyone other than the inventors and any person using them and reporting success and touting their merits - (that would mean no one on the board as no one here claims to have used them...) but from your own statement, do you see what is wrong?

It just looked to me, simply, that they put them in the tires, drove it, and noted that they eventually got them to not vibrate while driving. .

I was implying for a heck of a lot more scientific method than that! If I were taking you for your words literally, does that statement not sound even to you that perhaps these guys should have then removed all the beads and drove around just as they did with them, only this time without them and reported the results sans beads? Also, bias-ply tires have DRAMATIC CHANGES OCCUR TO THEM as well as a result of heat input. Its even possible with bias ply tires to move that out of balance "shake zone" dramatically simply with air pressure adjustments; at least my junk '53 Chevy balloon type white wall tires told me so.

And that sort of diligence does not even come from proper scientific method, nor some "fancy laboratory procedure" as one would want to do with ANYTHING, let alone something that seems so sketchy. If the manufacturer cannot say plainly how these beads seek out the lightest spot in a wheel assembly, I'd say they are in trouble. But who knows, maybe these are the first application of large scale size nano-bots, only made for tire balancing??? Don't know, but if I had an assembly like a couple tubeless tires that were fine yet pretty heavily out of balance, I'd borrow the funds to prove or disprove these things as pouring beads down the valve stem sounds a lot easier and so, so, so much cheaper than the procedures I am familiar with for BMW motorcycle all the way up to Indy Cars.

Why don't we ask "Myth Buters" to do a segment on them? While I am not confident they won't screw their own test up after seeing them grab two trucks and not even check crap on them and then put the same amount of fuel in them and run one with the windows down and one with them up and A/C on. Crap they could have already had a 10 MPG difference when they took them out to the track! They didn't even roll them over a pair of scales and I guarantee they would not weigh the same, so maybe Myth Busters would not be a good idea after all...

OK, so now someone has to test them! Who said they had a bottle that was not used? OK and who is going to change their tires and have them computer spin balanced? (They should "trick" the way we would normally balance them as the moving beads rolling about would change where the wheel stops each time - so you think they are instantly balanced if you do it "old school" like Duane speaks of and refers to the centering cone devices for our bearings...)

I wouldn't use them

i used to use balance and seal and I didn't know how long a tire could last with proper speed balance

after I mount a tire and get a tire to 1oz or less static, I take it to the tire shop for finish

Motorhead wrote:I wouldn't use them

i used to use balance and seal and I didn't know how long a tire could last with proper speed balance

after I mount a tire and get a tire to 1oz or less static, I take it to the tire shop for finish

I'm with you on that. It also brings to mind the "all manner" of things people would put in their tires to seal them. I've watched one of the local (car) guys roll a tire from a customer up and seem like they were having difficulties lifting it onto the bead breaker. when they pulled the valve core out of the stem, they got a face full of tire sealant junk and were none too pleased. In the end that crap was everywhere! Funny thing is, I know without this thread, if I were tearing down a wheel of any nature and it were full of those tiny beads, like shot from a shotgun shell, I am quite sure I would be entirely bewildered, but now I'll know at least what the intent was.

My only other semi-relevant comment, particularly that applies to the oldest bikes appropriate for this subcategory on the forum is the following: while there are nearly countless (it seems) things that by themselves or combined can put one's life and limb in danger on something like my '71 SWB R75/5 all of these stability issues (like fear of wobble) can be minimized down until the cats come home, but the tire and rim itself is where it all begins; where the rubber hits the road. I don't "personally" feel comfortable with BB's rolling around in my tube to make for a safe, stable, oscillation free ride. This just in my opinion is something far to risky. Like putting a cigarette out in gasoline - sure it can be done, but one day, one time things won't go as planned, then you have a real problem on your hands (or in that case WITH your hand.)

"...If you have a ten dollar head, buy a ten dollar helmet..."

It really isn't all that hard to balance a wheel properly, but very few motorcycle shops know how to do it. I should say, very few shops with a balancer know how to use it.

I have demonstrated my opinion of the proper technique to readers here on a few tech things, including at ken's. I think that some were surprised at how much there is to know and do.