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Steve in Golden wrote:So, if I wear hi-viz gear, I don't have to worry about motorists seeing me. Just like, if I am on foot and cross the street at a marked cross walk, I don't have to bother looking for traffic. I know all the cars will stop for me, since I am in the protected zone.

Exactly right! Not to worry!

I am always amazed at pedestrians crossing the street at a traffic light without looking. I just can't believe it.

I do not like to ride in a defensive manner.
Offensive is my chosen style.
(as opposed to offending).......well, most of the time anyhowz.

Hi viz makes a mess of night time rally photos.

If you notice how often cars hit 40' long yellow school buses, you know that they will hit you on a motorcycle no matter what you are wearing.

I wear a hi viz vest over my jacket and full protective
gear at all times; even if just going around the corner.
Its not pleasant at 35 degrees C

There are two basic rules

1. Everybody else on the road is an idiot.

2. You need all the help you can get.

kutter wrote:I wear a hi viz vest over my jacket and full protective
gear at all times; even if just going around the corner.
Its not pleasant at 35 degrees C

There are two basic rules

1. Everybody else on the road is an idiot.

2. You need all the help you can get.

Heeeeey... did Kutter just call us all idiots?!?!? (help me out guys...)

Zombie Master wrote:

Major Softie wrote: As an instructor, senior instructor, chief instructor, and program manager for motorcycle rider training, I have been taught to observe and analyze rider behavior. I have seen numerous riders that have made large investments in high viz products for their bikes ride in a less defensive manner. They are counting on the observation skills of untrained, unconcerned, and inattentive car operators that are ubiquitous on North American roadways. The are deluded.

You know, about seven years ago I sold a really nice bicycle to a man who was a MSF instructor. I had just reentered the motorcycling world and assumed he could have some wisdom to impart on motorcycling safety. We never got that far in conversation. Fast forward a few months. I had just finished some work on Stan, the bike that is now R90S spec. I headed out for a test ride and had electrical problems. Very minor, but not important to the story. As I was stopped at the side of the road trying to find out why Stan had quit on me, up rode the MSF instructor on his R1100RT. We talked for a while. He told me he had recently been in an accident. At an intersection, he was hit by a car driven by a young woman and his bike's jug had contributed to the safety of his foot. I can't remember the details of the accident. He proudly showed me the new brightly colored helmet he had bought to contribute to his conspicuity. It was painted yellow, blue, and white mostly, with some other colors thrown in. The pattern is based on what tattoo people call "tribal". So, here was a very *well camouflaged helmet that the rider, an ex military man, considered safer than his old one.

What does this have to do with your argument that brightly colored clothing essentially makes people less safe riders? Nothing. It has to do with your reasoning that you are so gosh darn good at discerning what brightly colored gear does to riders mindsets because you have credentials.

The arguments made by you, ZM about brightly colored clothing do not make sense. Actually, they may make sense for a few riders but you do not qualify that at all and have written as if all people who ride in Hi-Viz clothing are automatically stricken with otherwise counterproductive riding habits. I ask you this question: If you were to wear an Olympia Hi-Viz suit on a given ride, would it change your mindset and riding habits? And if not, how can you say that most other riders who choose bright colors will end up in a quagmire of dangerous riding practices?

Chuey

*One of the main principles of camouflage is that no large bodies of the same color should be used. Breaking up the shapes of things with smaller pattern that don't show the larger, more identifiable form make it harder to see. It would be better to have a large presence of one color for conspicuity. The colors that have been shown to be best are Bright Yellow, White, and Fluorescent Pink. A helmet in one of those colors, without interruption by patterns of other colors will stand out more than if you break them up.

Chuey gave us:

Zombie Master wrote:

Major Softie wrote: As an instructor, senior instructor, chief instructor, and program manager for motorcycle rider training, I have been taught to observe and analyze rider behavior. I have seen numerous riders that have made large investments in high viz products for their bikes ride in a less defensive manner. They are counting on the observation skills of untrained, unconcerned, and inattentive car operators that are ubiquitous on North American roadways. The are deluded.

Oh God. Now Chuey has been taking quote feature lessons from ZM.

Zombie Master wrote:
Can't imagine what Sophocles has to do with this subject. Please explain.

Just showing that I spent so much of my life studying Greek theatre, that now all my philosophers have been polluted with playrights.

It's now fixed.

What does this have to do with your argument that brightly colored clothing essentially makes people less safe riders? Nothing. It has to do with your reasoning that you are so gosh darn good at discerning what brightly colored gear does to riders mindsets because you have credentials.

I never said that brightly colored clothing make riders less safe. You are making stuff up out of your head.

What I am saying again is that I see riders with lots of hi viz stuff ride less safely. I attribute this to them feeling more secure in traffic situations.

The arguments made by you, ZM about brightly colored clothing do not make sense.

They do not make sense to you. Own it.

Actually, they may make sense for a few riders but you do not qualify that at all and have written as if all people who ride in Hi-Viz clothing are automatically stricken with otherwise counterproductive riding habits.

I didn't say that. I reported on what I have observed in some situations. I also think some Ultra Hi Viz riders just want more attention and adulation. And why would I need to qualify something so obvious?

I ask you this question: If you were to wear an Olympia Hi-Viz suit on a given ride, would it change your mindset and riding habits?

Yes because the Olympia suits leaks at the arm vents.

And if not, how can you say that most other riders who choose bright colors will end up in a quagmire of dangerous riding practices?

I dislike quagmires as much as anyone....that's why I ride a dual sport motorcycle with deeply treaded tires.

I think being visible to other traffic is a good thing, unless you are avoiding detection by the bottom feeding scum suckers that punish well equipped skilled riders who understand that it is often safer to ride faster than auto traffic, in order to keep as large a space cushion as possible.

Right. You use only your rear brake because you feel your deeply treaded tires will grip too much and throw you over the bars. And that is the only reason you don't use ape hangers; so you don't get thrown higher if you happen to accidentally use your front brake.

If you check your original post, you'll see the generalization you made.

By the way, I am sorry for my inept use of the quote feature. Dang!

Chuey