Boxerworks.com

gspd wrote:

Frog wrote:GSPD:

The link that you provided for the case savers is not working for me.

Try this link, scroll down to the 5th pic
http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/bug ... 20case.htm

Is this the right size for our application?

VW CASE SAVER INSERTS 10mm I.D. X 14mm O.D., SET OF 8

Then, one needs a 14mm x? tap? Are there some good instructions on this? I just want to do a little homework...just in case (pun intended)

What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

I like Helicoils FAR better than TimeSerts or similar;...for this application. Properly done, the Helicoil has no oil flow problems from those oil passageways.

Done properly, a pulled stud repair can be as or stronger than the original. In most instances, the repair is FAR stronger than the original. Only in the really horribly bad instances have I found it necessary to do welding. One must be careful about the oil galley feeds to the top studs, no matter how it is repaired. Torque the 6 nuts to 25 foot pounds on a known accurate torque wrench...NOT a cheap beam wrench. This applies to ALL airhead models, NO MATTER what any manual or literature says. Be sure to stage the torqueing, and use a crisscross pattern. My personal staging is 11, 18, 24, then a final at 25, and a recheck later...a couple of hours or overnight. You are CRAZY to do this with an inaccurate wrench.


NOTE: BE SURE you FULLY understand that ALL the oiling for the valve guides and the rockers and pushrod tips, ETC., all comes from the OIL GALLEY, which is supplied to the top end via two holes located at the engine cases at the TWO TOP CYLINDER STUDS. If you are going to repair pulled threads, where a stud has pulled out of the engine case, it MUST be done properly, as there is a lot of torque on those studs when tightening the 4 head nuts, and you MUST ensure that the oil passages continue to be functional. Note that the path of the oil is along the two upper studs themselves!

Helicoils work fine if properly installed...I recommend AGAINST Timeserts!

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/break-in.htm

Frog wrote:What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

His comments are much easier to read without the technicolour type and highlighting!!! Frog, would you mind editing the rest of his website while you're at it? The airhead community will toast your good name, sir!

I've used a local variant of helicoil (called a Re-coil) on many occasions over the decades, and have several sets of various sizes in the shed. I have used them on the crankcase stud threads as well, long before I discovered on the interweb that they don't work. The engine which I fitted them to twenty years ago is still happily chugging around and towing its sidecar while blissfully unaware of its apparently impending peril . . .

As Snowbum says, a good quality torque wrench is the key to avoiding tears when assembling any engine. I use 28ft/lb for cylinder head torque, and use the staged tightening sequence to torque the head progressively. Other than the engine mentioned above which arrived with an already stripped thread, I've not had a problem. I retorque the heads after a heat cycle (& check the valve clearances) and then leave them alone.

As Usual, YMMV etc

Frog (quoting Snowbum) wrote:What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

I like Helicoils FAR better than TimeSerts or similar;...for this application. Properly done, the Helicoil has no oil flow problems from those oil passageways.

Helicoils work fine if properly installed...I recommend AGAINST Timeserts!

I don't understand why he would recommend to not use Case Savers. Ignorance possibly?
Helicoils have no advantage over Case Savers, quite the opposite.
Anybody who's done both knows that TimeSerts (case savers) are WAY STRONGER than helicoils.
Ask anyone who races air-cooled VW's.
I've personally seen heli-coils pull out, and when they do, they crack the barrel.
You have to machine one end of the case saver flat so it's flush with the case, and then the upper ones need a hole drilled upwards at an angle to connect to the oil feed passage.
Helicoils are a bit less work to install, maybe that's why he uses them.

The other debatable advantage of helicoils vs case savers would be that they require less parent material to be removed.

gspd wrote:

Frog (quoting Snowbum) wrote:What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

I like Helicoils FAR better than TimeSerts or similar;...for this application. Properly done, the Helicoil has no oil flow problems from those oil passageways.

Helicoils work fine if properly installed...I recommend AGAINST Timeserts!

I don't understand why he would recommend to not use Case Savers. Ignorance possibly?
Helicoils have no advantage over Case Savers, quite the opposite.
Anybody who's done both knows that TimeSerts (case savers) are WAY STRONGER than helicoils.
Ask anyone who races air-cooled VW's.
I've personally seen heli-coils pull out, and when they do, they crack the barrel.
You have to machine one end of the case saver flat so it's flush with the case, and then the upper ones need a hole drilled upwards at an angle to connect to the oil feed passage.
Helicoils are a bit less work to install, maybe that's why he uses them.

Both methods will work. The Heliocoil is easier to install and stronger than the original aluminum thread in the block. The case saver is even stronger still and will take alot more abuse. For a stock /5, for street use, you'll have no problem with Heliocoils as long as you install them carefully.

mattcfish wrote:

gspd wrote:

Frog (quoting Snowbum) wrote:What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

I like Helicoils FAR better than TimeSerts or similar;...for this application. Properly done, the Helicoil has no oil flow problems from those oil passageways.

Helicoils work fine if properly installed...I recommend AGAINST Timeserts!

I don't understand why he would recommend to not use Case Savers. Ignorance possibly?
Helicoils have no advantage over Case Savers, quite the opposite.
Anybody who's done both knows that TimeSerts (case savers) are WAY STRONGER than helicoils.
Ask anyone who races air-cooled VW's.
I've personally seen heli-coils pull out, and when they do, they crack the barrel.
You have to machine one end of the case saver flat so it's flush with the case, and then the upper ones need a hole drilled upwards at an angle to connect to the oil feed passage.
Helicoils are a bit less work to install, maybe that's why he uses them.

Both methods will work. The Heliocoil is easier to install and stronger than the original aluminum thread in the block. The case saver is even stronger still and will take alot more abuse. For a stock /5, for street use, you'll have no problem with Heliocoils as long as you install them carefully.

Let's hope that I do not have a pulled stud, that would be the ideal. I have my gaskets and plan to dig in tomorrow night.

My slash five is stock and used on the street (and dirt roads) only. But, I would say that I am on the "wring it's neck" side of the spectrum when it comes to how I use the motor. I am not saying that I am the fastest or most talented rider, just not afraid to use it up to and into the red. I very much enjoy this little slash five. I seem to never really ride my R100 anymore.

Frog wrote: Let's hope that I do not have a pulled stud, that would be the ideal. I have my gaskets and plan to dig in tomorrow night.

You might be putting the cart ahead of the horse.
Maybe you just have a leaky gaskets exacerbated by the synthetic oil.
Test the studs first.
If one is weak, pull it right out by tightening the nut before you take anything apart.
(If it has started to pull out, it won't easily unscrew out of the case)
This will leave a nice straight hole to tap into for the insert.

gspd wrote:

Frog (quoting Snowbum) wrote:What do you make of Snowbum's comments:

I like Helicoils FAR better than TimeSerts or similar;...for this application. Properly done, the Helicoil has no oil flow problems from those oil passageways.

Helicoils work fine if properly installed...I recommend AGAINST Timeserts!

I don't understand why he would recommend to not use Case Savers. Ignorance possibly?
Helicoils have no advantage over Case Savers, quite the opposite.
Anybody who's done both knows that TimeSerts (case savers) are WAY STRONGER than helicoils.
Ask anyone who races air-cooled VW's.
I've personally seen heli-coils pull out, and when they do, they crack the barrel.
You have to machine one end of the case saver flat so it's flush with the case, and then the upper ones need a hole drilled upwards at an angle to connect to the oil feed passage.
Helicoils are a bit less work to install, maybe that's why he uses them.

This is what can happen when a helicoil fails.. Then a timsert was put in and it would not hold either... Happened to my original 1000 engine...



Read the saga here .........http://rossmz.blogspot.com/search/label ... der%20stud

Work in progress....

Barrels back on, sealed and torqued. Studs seem okay.