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Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:02 am
by gspd
Ok, I think we have a misunderstanding
To clarify
The trigger rotor fits on its shaft only one way, this is determined by its small locating pin, agree?

The cog that engages into the camshaft can fit on the beancan shaft either way, at 0 or 180 degrees, right?
This one makes no difference.
I can post pics later if you think I'm not explaining it right

Different part number ECU's have different internal electronic specifications that will vary depending on the system's hall sensors (type, quantity, sensitivity, impedance, etc) and depending on the ignition coils (type, quantity, resistance, output, etc.) and depending on the rev limit established by the manufacturer for any given application. They might also vary depending on if it's a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinder engine. I do not believe there is any internal circuitry that advances or retards the timing in any of these ECU's.
If you're getting a STEADY AND CONSISTENT FAT BLUE SPARK AT BOTH PLUGS, while cranking the engine with the starter, most likely your ICU is OK.
BUT
If that spark is not occurring at the right moment, even after rotating the beancan throughout its range, you most likely have an internal beancan advance mechanism problem. Something might be missing, stuck, jammed or bent.

If that inability to time the spark was caused by excessive timing chain wear, I think it would be (horribly) audible.
If the bike had always run terribly (since you've owned it), it is possible that the previous owner replaced the timing chain without properly aligning the camshaft and crankshaft, but I doubt that.

The reason I suggested direct(hot) wiring the system for testing is I that I have personally experienced issues with kill switches, ignition switches and faulty harnesses that caused weird things to happen to the ignition electronics and wanted to eliminate those possibilities.

Hope I'm making sense to you,
Keep me posted, we'll get to the bottom of this, by hook or by crook ;)

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:08 am
by gspd
Another suggestion.
if everything appears OK in the beancan, and the advance mechanism moves freely, try it again with your old springs, maybe the new ones are waaay too strong.

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:06 am
by kojones
OK. Got the old Audi/VW ICU, seems like I have some other problem as I need to remove the connector going to speedo etc to get the bike running properly. Already removed the one wire going to tacho from coil, so my tacho might be just fine.

This seems like a problem with the charging system?

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:40 am
by kojones
Disconnected the B+ lead from the diode board and measured voltages compared to ground, voltage under 0,6 volts at low revs but rises fast to 18 or 19 volts. Connector to speedo and tacho disconnected.

Faulty regulator?

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:58 am
by kojones
Clymer alternator circuit troubleshooting suggests that I have a alternator problem, but how the dashboard connector removal affects that?

The regulator needs the charging system lamp to be connected to work? Can I cheat on this with resistor jumped to ground?

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:04 am
by robert
Cam chain installed 1 tooth off.

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:15 am
by ME 109
robert wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:04 am Cam chain installed 1 tooth off.
'Misfired while riding' then died.

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:32 am
by kojones
I’m quite sure now that I have a problem with the charging. I’m not sure if that’s the root cause, but at least it makes sense, voltage spikes mess up the ICU.

Removed the alternator, brushes seem fine. So I either have a bad regulator or a short somewhere near the dash alternator light, can’t find a short with a multimeter and there’s two bulbs parallel, both read 20 ohms so under 10 ohms to ground total when bulbs are cold. It will be much more when when they’re hot.

This is not stock, but it seems like it works https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkyestjzlunjv ... 5.jpg?dl=0

So it might be I have a problem with the regulator?

https://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/113003/ ... ch-erillin

This looks like it should fit?

The plot sickens...

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:34 am
by gspd
HOLY F#*K !!!!
What a mess!
I feel like I'm getting pranked on one of those hidden camera shows! :o

MY ADVICE: FORGET ABOUT ALL THAT OTHER STUFF, STOP REPLACING PARTS, AND GET THAT ENGINE RUNNING PROPERLY!

The charging system's only function is to recharge your battery. It is not necessary for the proper functioning of the engine.
I would concentrate on getting the engine running properly before going any further. Those other electrical issues can be sorted, one by one, afterwards. Experience proved I was correct in instructing you to hot wire the ignition system to eliminate the possibility of a wiring harness short, but never expected to see a butcher job of such magnitude! The guy who did that deserves a taser to the testicles. Hope it wasn't you. :roll:

The main objective (for now) is to COMPLETELY ISOLATE the engine (with ONLY its ignition and starting system) from the rest of that mess. This is a relatively simple process but must be done correctly if you don't want to turn a 'big mess' into a 'big smouldering mess'. :twisted:

To begin, you will need:
1) a FULLY CHARGED BATTERY - a car battery set up on the floor beside the bike would be ideal-.
2) a set of BOOSTER CABLES
3) an assortment JUMPER WIRES, preferably with alligator clips at both ends

Are you still with me? :geek: I will walk you through this step by step if you want. Just say when...

Re: Ignition module issues

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:09 am
by kojones
Battery is fully charged and I’m pretty good with electronics, so bring it on.

Checked the instrument light wiring, that’s ok and will do until winter and a rebuild. Connector back on and bike running, it’s not charging even with the regulator bypassed. Charge light stays on. Cuts off with enough revs. Bad diode?