Page 5 of 5

Re: Sequential shifting question for the cycle racers...

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:15 am
by Zombie Master
dwire wrote:
Major Softie wrote:
dwire wrote:Not learning about our transmission here. I can talk of my open-wheel racing career and high speed crashes elsewhere...
Oh no...

Did dwire just try to criticize thread degradation? I hope he's not in the wrong Forum. :roll:
Too funny. I think it is common for many to learn when threads get derailed.

I am uncertain what is learned by repeating the same thing over and over, rephrasing my question in new and more ingenious ways to only have posts like the one I just responded to. All of that was covered ad-nauseum twice earlier.

I don't know... Whatever I guess, sorry I asked. At the time, I thought I would learn that for which I did not know, instead one thing is certain, I have learned not to ask a question that is unlikely for others to have any answer to. For at least in this case, of all these posts, I think there are two that postulate anything at all with regard to my question. The rest is essentially me re-stating the same things over and over.


Try again it takes practice to post a question that is relevant to a specific type of forum. In this case a BMW Airhead form.

Re: Sequential shifting question for the cycle racers...

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:07 pm
by Major Softie
Zombie Master wrote: Try again it takes practice to post a question that is relevant to a specific type of forum. In this case a BMW Airhead form.
Although this post seems a bit snide, ZM has a worthwhile point here. I think the original question assumed a much greater understanding of automotive racing transmissions than apparently exists here, as is evidenced by the number of people who, while quite informed about motorcycle transmissions, still misunderstood the question.

I was a bit surprised how many people confused the topic with one of comparing constant-mesh and synchro-mesh transmissions, but there you have it. I know that, even though I understood the question and offered the possibility that it was the size and mass of the components making the difference, I could only offer that as a guess because, although I understand how different an F1-type transmission is from normal street automotive transmissions in its operation, I have no knowledge of the internal parts, I just assume that they operate in a similar manner to those in a motorcycle because the transmission itself operates the way a motorcycle transmission does. That may not be the case.

Re: Sequential shifting question for the cycle racers...

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:24 pm
by Zombie Master
Major Softie wrote:
Zombie Master wrote: Try again it takes practice to post a question that is relevant to a specific type of forum. In this case a BMW Airhead form.
Although this post seems a bit snide, ZM has a worthwhile point here. I think the original question assumed a much greater understanding of automotive racing transmissions than apparently exists here, as is evidenced by the number of people who, while quite informed about motorcycle transmissions, still misunderstood the question.


When I have a question about automotive sequential transmissions, I won't be coming to Boxeworks then. For topics related to Airheads I'm here like a MOFO!
images.jpg

Re: Sequential shifting question for the cycle racers...

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:37 pm
by dwire
Major Softie wrote: Although this post seems a bit snide, ZM has a worthwhile point here. I think the original question assumed a much greater understanding of automotive racing transmissions than apparently exists here, as is evidenced by the number of people who, while quite informed about motorcycle transmissions, still misunderstood the question.

I was a bit surprised how many people confused the topic with one of comparing constant-mesh and synchro-mesh transmissions, but there you have it. I know that, even though I understood the question and offered the possibility that it was the size and mass of the components making the difference, I could only offer that as a guess because, although I understand how different an F1-type transmission is from normal street automotive transmissions in its operation, I have no knowledge of the internal parts, I just assume that they operate in a similar manner to those in a motorcycle because the transmission itself operates the way a motorcycle transmission does. That may not be the case.
Point taken.

This would as well happen if I asked on a racing forum why their race boxes don't work like my BMW's - without knowledge of the BMW, the same response is highly likely, only in reverse. I also inquired of the "cycle racers" in the topic, I suppose no competitors noticed, for I thought at minimum they could draw some parallels to what was and was not required of them in operation of a motorcycle's gearbox placed in competition, no bike racers seemed to post.


Also, it is truly impossible for me to say what would happen if I operated the competition (F car) boxes in the manner we all do our BMW's as one never really does that. Its clear one COULD use the clutch to up-shift (and you had to if your box began to misbehave, like losing a gear and such) but that would just slow you down and tire you out further (and you got plenty of opportunities to use the clutch per lap on downshifts...) I can't recall ever just slowly idling along in sixth @ 80-90MPH and gradually braking and downshifting as one would on their BMW, it just does not happen that way while competing; the braking that might require a downshift is almost ALWAYS under duress and not at all like riding a BMW (or any bike) on the street - eventually you'd crash from doing it. (Ask the motorcyclists racing road course about this; they likely can show the scars from it...)

Inertia is truly the best notion proposed. One day when I am able to dig down to the prints and blowups I have of those old competition boxes, perhaps with inspection and the collective wisdom here we may then arrive at something better than just speculation. For now, I must be content in not knowing the answer. Funny now as manually shifted sequential transmissions are no longer a part of even the lowest brackets of formula open-wheel racing. I just looked at a car that was about two steps below the old Formula Atlantic's, or Indy Lite's and see even they now have computer controlled shift-no-lift systems installed these days. It's like "Nintendo for the race car" - good systems, but I think it takes some of the fun and skill out of the deal IMHO...