What's with these #!%^*! stands?

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DucatiPete
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What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by DucatiPete »

When i picked up my (well abused) '82 R100RS it came sans centre stand springs, it was held up with zip ties... I've since lost three in my attempts to keep it up (the stand that is!) in maybe a week or ten day's riding. :shock:
I've gone over the centre stand and replaced the bushes (with brass ones) and added new springs. One side stayed on for a while (ie until my last ride) whilst the other would be gone within the day! :evil:
I had to ride the last 10ks home today holding the stand up with my left foot - causing a whole new series of leg cramps! (after ~450km day in the saddle). :cry:
I note the centre stand has two loops welded on it to take the spring, but they're 90 degrees offset from the spring, is this the problem? Do I have to change the loops on the stand to take the spring as it is presented... this is a little difficult to describe.
Has anyone else had these (centre stand/spring) problems ?
Please tell me there's a 'simple, solid and reliable' solution? ;)
As for the side stand: I've managed to hack it so that it no longer self-retracts - this i like! though it's still a bit of a pain to kick out.
pete
ME 109
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by ME 109 »

There's more than just springs for the c/stand Pete. The springs hook onto the stand at one end, and at the other they hook onto a pivoting plate set up. Sorry I don't have a pic at the moment but if no one can help before I finish work tomorrow I'll put some pics up.
Brass bushes 'eh..... don't know how long that will last?
Lord of the Bings
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DucatiPete
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by DucatiPete »

I just looked at a pic of a centre stand and noticed the spring 'anchors' are 90 deg's opposite the ones on mine - i suspect this is the problem. 'll weld some new ones on like what i saw and try again. BTW it appears my bike doesn't have the 'hangers' of the earlier models. there's a couple of spring anchors on lugs coming down from the frame and the springs are ~140 mm as opposed to the shorter springs/hangers on the '81s (and earlier).
I'm relatively confident abt the brass bushes, made 'em out of bearing brass so they're self lubricating and should run a lot smoother than steel ones and a lot less wear on the steel components. And i can turn up new ones at the drop of a hat.
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Ken in Oklahoma
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'82 Side Stand

Post by Ken in Oklahoma »

DucatiPete wrote: As for the side stand: I've managed to hack it so that it no longer self-retracts - this i like! though it's still a bit of a pain to kick out.

When I bought my '82 RS it was in very good shape--but that damned sidestand was nearly impossible! The problem was that the pivot joint so was badly worn that I had to actually lean the bike to the right to deploy the stand. :o :evil:

Either that or hold the bike upright as you kick the stand into place with it digging into the ground. (An '81 RT project bike of mine has the same problem, only to a lesser degree.)

I "fixed" the problem by installing a Brown Sidestand. Had I not done that I would have attempted a repair. Taking the L/H header pipe off to remove the sidestand revealed what I believed to be the problem. Simply the slot in the kickstand leg had worn to a keystone shape while the tab welded to the frame wore to a geartooth shape. As I recall there was a bushing in the pivot, but I determined that the bushing, though useful as a pivot bearing, was essentially useless to keep the sidestand from "sagging". To accomplish that, I determined, meant that the slot in the upper end of the sidestand had to be returned to a square slot and the tab on the frame had to returned to mating square configuration.

I saw two ways to accomplish that. Both ways involved depositing some weld material onto the tab and then grinding and filing to the required shape. As for the slot in the upper end of the sidestand, that was more problematic. It would be difficult to get at the inner walls of the slot to deposit the weld material. But I figured it could be done, but only at the more "accessible" locations, making the repair a bit of a kluge. A second method that occurred to me would be to re-forge the top slot in the kickstand by heating it with an oxy acetylene torch and judiciously whacking it with a hammer, then grinding and filing to fit.

A third approach did occur to me, which I quickly discarded. That would have been to rework the frame tab as mentioned, then to mill the slot in the kickstand back into square. This would mean that a spacer of the required thickness would need to be fabricated.

My ultimate conclusion about the '81 thru '84 sidestands is that they are a piss poor design and I wonder if even diligent greasing of the pivot joint would have been enough to make the sidestand last for a reasonable time.

In summary, my advice would be to acquire a Brown sidestand even though they are increasingly more rare and pricier. And even the Brown isn't perfect. It needs a tab you can catch with your heel to deploy it.


Ken
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Ken in Oklahoma
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Re: '82 Side Stand

Post by Ken in Oklahoma »

DucatiPete wrote: As for the side stand: I've managed to hack it so that it no longer self-retracts - this i like! though it's still a bit of a pain to kick out.

When I bought my '82 RS it was in very good shape--but that damned sidestand was nearly impossible! (An '81 RT project bike of mine has the same problem, only to a lesser degree.)

The problem was that the pivot joint so was badly worn that I had to actually lean the bike to the right to deploy the side stand. :o :evil:

Either that or hold the bike upright as you kick the stand into place with it digging into the ground.

I "fixed" the problem by installing a Brown Sidestand. Had I not done that I would have attempted a repair. Taking the L/H header pipe off to remove the sidestand revealed what I believed to be the problem. Simply the slot in the kickstand leg had worn to a keystone shape while the tab welded to the frame wore to a matching but sloppy geartooth shape. As I recall there was a bushing in the pivot, but I determined that the bushing, though useful as a pivot bearing, was essentially useless to keep the sidestand from "sagging". To accomplish that, I determined, meant that the slot in the upper end of the sidestand had to be returned to a square slot and the tab on the frame had to returned to mating square configuration.

I saw two ways to accomplish that. Both ways involved depositing some weld material onto the frame mounted tab and then grinding and filing to the required shape. As for the slot in the upper end of the sidestand, that was more problematic. It would be difficult to get at the inner walls of the slot to deposit the weld material. But I figured it could be done, but only at the more "accessible" locations, making the repair a bit of a kluge. A second method that occurred to me would be to re-forge the top slot in the kickstand by heating it with an oxy acetylene torch and judiciously whacking it with a hammer, then grinding and filing to fit.

A third approach did occur to me, which I quickly discarded. That would have been to rework the frame tab as mentioned, then to mill the slot in the kickstand back into square. This would mean that a spacer of the required thickness would need to be fabricated.

My ultimate conclusion about the '81 thru '84 sidestands is that they are a piss poor design, inferior to the /5 /6 /7 design, and I wonder if even diligent greasing of the pivot joint would have been enough to make the sidestand last for a reasonable time.

In summary, my advice would be to acquire a Brown sidestand even though they are increasingly hard to find and more expensive when you do. And even the Brown isn't perfect. It needs a tab so you can catch with your heel to deploy it. (putting a small hose clamp onto the kickstand gave me something to catch with my heel and deploy, but the fix is decidedly inelegant).


Ken
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Chuey
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by Chuey »

My first BMW was a 1974 R90/6. The self retracting side stand was something I had to get used to. It no longer self retracts and requires a nudge from a boot and then it springs up. I like that stand better than the ones that came on my mid eighties bikes. For traveling, the Brown sidestand is wonderful! It holds the bike securely and can be deployed from the saddle. After hours on the road, that is worth it's weight in gold.

Center stands seem to have their individual personalities. Some of my bikes are relatively easy to get up on the stand, and some are a real struggle. All are in good repair. I had a Ride Off stand and didn't like it. I like that the stock center stand holds a wheel off the ground. It is better for on the road repairs. By the way, my tack is to go out with good preparation in hopes of avoiding on the road repairs. :)

Chuey
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by Duane Ausherman »

BMW has always had poor stands, IMHO.

Something is clearly wrong with your set up. I hope and trust that those here will assist and you will get it to working normally.

The /5 and /6 retractable side stand was such that a person could elect to have it flip up automatically, or stay down. How can one complain about that aspect?

The Reynolds Ride Off Stand was simply the best around. Roadside repairs are easy to do, just lay it over on a valve cover. If that were a problem, then working on bikes with that stand in a commercial shop would make us hate it. We didn't, but we did have to adjust our procedures a bit. After we learned how to deal with it, we loved that stand.
Ask the Indians what happens when you don't control immigration.
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SteveD
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by SteveD »

The Surefoot from Motobins are good too.

Grant left, me right.


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1982 R100RSR100RS supergallery. https://boxerboy81.smugmug.com/R100RS
2006 K1200R.
1994 R1100GS.
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dougie
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Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by dougie »

SteveD wrote:The Surefoot from Motobins are good too.
+1
Got one. Like it.
Added a 3/8" aluminium pad to the foot, but that's just my bike, driveway, and preference.
I've spent most of my money on women, motorcycles, and beer.
The rest of it I just wasted.
Deleted User 62

Re: What's with these #!%^*! stands?

Post by Deleted User 62 »

Not sure if this is your problem Pete, but the centerstand springs themselves can be mounted "wrong". On my /5 the coiled part of the springs must be forward so that the straight wire part of them fits into the slot between the engine and frame when the stand is up. If they are mounted backwards, the spacer between the engine and frame will press on the coils and hasten their replacement. I notice on some BMWs the spacer has a groove machined in it, sort of like a pulley, to give more clearance for the spring.
Last edited by Deleted User 62 on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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