The wheel bearings are out of a pair of snowflakes I've just had powdercoated. The bearing cups are in the freezer. I'm trying to learn the bearing setting skill. I've read Snowbum's, Duane's, MOA news articles, which I like because they have pictures. I'm missing some of those articles, though.
By grinding a small amount off of the old bearing cup's outer diameters, I've made tools that should help me to insert the new cups all the way into their bores.
It seems that the spacer assembly needs to be inserted before installing the bearing cups. I can see that there are two flats on each flanged nylon cap ring at the ends of the spacers. I'm assuming they are so that the nylon pieces can be inserted with the bearings in place. It seems like it would be somewhat akin to building a ship in a bottle to insert the whole assembly with the bearing cups in place.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Chuey
Wheel bearings
Re: Wheel bearings
It's too early to get actual mechanical advice. We're all still wondern round the new clubhouse lookin for the can and makin sure there is enough room around the pool table.
Maybe in a day or so somebody will settle down and start to read the posts.
Where is GS?????
Maybe in a day or so somebody will settle down and start to read the posts.
Where is GS?????
Garnet
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Ken in Oklahoma
- Posts: 3182
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:10 pm
Re: Wheel bearings
Chuey:
It seems that the spacer assembly needs to be inserted before installing the bearing cups. I can see that there are two flats on each flanged nylon cap ring at the ends of the spacers. I'm assuming they are so that the nylon pieces can be inserted with the bearings in place. It seems like it would be somewhat akin to building a ship in a bottle to insert the whole assembly with the bearing cups in place.
Chuey, I'm not sure I understand your question. We're talking about the long center spacer between the two bearings, right? That long spacer has two plastic flanges that don't need to be taken off or put back on. The purpose of the two plastic flanges, as I'm sure you know, is to roughly center the spacer (with companion wedding band) so that the axle can find it's way into the center spacer as the axle is slid into place. Yeah, the spacer with flanges will move around inside the hub a bit, but so what?
As an aside the center spacer can be inserted after the bearing outer races if you shave a little off the diameter of the plastic flanges. I've done that on a couple of my bikes and haven't had any noticeable problem finding the center spacer with the axle.
The one advantage I can see to making the center spacer removable with the bearing outer races still in place in the hub is that when you're servicing the bearings you can remove the center spacer and wipe the gunk off of it. I probably won't be modifying the flanges on the center spacer on any more bikes. I figure that if the bearings are good, then regreasing the bearings is sufficient. And if one of the bearings is bad, well, then you have to remove the bad outer race too and you can get rid of any crud from the bad bearing that might have contaminated the grease in the hub.
In short, I've gotten along just fine never taking the plastic spacers off of the center spacer in the first place. I would never want to try to insert the plastic spacers through the bearing outer race and then somehow guide them onto the center spacer.
Have I somehow managed to answer your question?
Ken
____________________________________
There's no such thing as too many airheads
There's no such thing as too many airheads
Re: Wheel bearings
Yes Ken, that sort of answered my question. I was kind of just trying to get the hang of the new forum and basically asking a question that was on my mind that I figured I'd have to come to grips with my own way of doing anyway. That's what I was saying about trying to put the center spacer assembly together with the races in place, that it would be hard. (ship in a bottle reference) I'm thinking I'll have to use the axle and some spacers to pull the races into place so they seat fully in their bores. As a matter of face, I'm going to head out to the workbench right now and see if I can get a good start before calling it a night.
Chuey
Chuey
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Deleted User 72
Re: Wheel bearings
Don't let Duane hear you. Pulling the races in with axle tension is akin to forcing them in/out without heat. You're moving soft metal with the hard metal. Better to heat the hub and freeze the races and drop them in. Press them home while the heat differential is still there.
Re: Wheel bearings
I think (correct me Chuey) that Chuey intended to use a buncha spacers and the old outers with the axle to make a press to use while stuff was still hot/cold, like what I've done here with 1/2" threaded rod and a coupla 30mm (VW crank pulley!) sockets:Native /5 wrote:Don't let Duane hear you. Pulling the races in with axle tension is akin to forcing them in/out without heat. You're moving soft metal with the hard metal. Better to heat the hub and freeze the races and drop them in. Press them home while the heat differential is still there.
Call me Mel. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me at home, I thought I would ride about a little and see the other parts of the world.
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Ken in Oklahoma
- Posts: 3182
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:10 pm
My way of seating bearings
For seating the outer bearing races in the hub I use a way similar to what Chuey is contemplating. Since I'm replacing a bearing I take out the old outer race and with a right angle grinder I cut across the race turning it from an "O" into a "C". This modified outer race becomes my driver. Using a hammer and my custom driver I can get the driver back out after seating the bearing race.
Hammering a socket of just the right size to drive in the race will of course work as well--except for the insult to the socket.
I prefer this "driver" approach as opposed to pulling the race into place with a threaded rod because I can positively hear and feel when the bearing race is fully seated against the shoulder in the hub. My concern with a threaded rod would be that I might not have the race seated properly all along its circumference since I'm relying on a certain torque on the nut of the threaded as opposed to something more audible and perhaps tactile.
The only way I would otherwise know that the bearing race wasn't fully seated would be if the wedding band thickness were way off. In my experience name brand bearings are made with such precision that the same wedding band that came out will be the same one that goes back in.
About heating the hub: Chuey is talking about snowflake wheels which have a steel insert cast into the wheel on both sides. I'm not sure if that's true of all snowflakes, but it is true of all the snowflakes I have seen. The spoked wheels have no such steel insert (that I have seen). I believe it was Duane who raised the level of consciousness about the need to heat the hub when removing or replacing bearings. His point is that doing the job cold causes wear and tear on the aluminum hub and can result in wear in the hub which in turn can lead to the bearing race spinning in the hub.
I heat my spoked wheel hubs. However with the steel insert in snowflake wheels the issue of wear and tear on the hub is essentially non existent. Heating a hub with a steel insert in order to remove the bearing race will accomplish little because the steel insert has essentially the same coefficient of expansion as the bearing because both are made of steel. Heating an aluminum hub is effective because the aluminum coefficient of expansion is greater than that for steel.
When installing the new race into a hub with a steel insert it is effective to heat the hub since you can chill the outer race and it can more easily be driven/pulled into the hub.
There are, of course, different ways to skin this cat. The above is just my preferred way.
Ken
Hammering a socket of just the right size to drive in the race will of course work as well--except for the insult to the socket.
I prefer this "driver" approach as opposed to pulling the race into place with a threaded rod because I can positively hear and feel when the bearing race is fully seated against the shoulder in the hub. My concern with a threaded rod would be that I might not have the race seated properly all along its circumference since I'm relying on a certain torque on the nut of the threaded as opposed to something more audible and perhaps tactile.
The only way I would otherwise know that the bearing race wasn't fully seated would be if the wedding band thickness were way off. In my experience name brand bearings are made with such precision that the same wedding band that came out will be the same one that goes back in.
About heating the hub: Chuey is talking about snowflake wheels which have a steel insert cast into the wheel on both sides. I'm not sure if that's true of all snowflakes, but it is true of all the snowflakes I have seen. The spoked wheels have no such steel insert (that I have seen). I believe it was Duane who raised the level of consciousness about the need to heat the hub when removing or replacing bearings. His point is that doing the job cold causes wear and tear on the aluminum hub and can result in wear in the hub which in turn can lead to the bearing race spinning in the hub.
I heat my spoked wheel hubs. However with the steel insert in snowflake wheels the issue of wear and tear on the hub is essentially non existent. Heating a hub with a steel insert in order to remove the bearing race will accomplish little because the steel insert has essentially the same coefficient of expansion as the bearing because both are made of steel. Heating an aluminum hub is effective because the aluminum coefficient of expansion is greater than that for steel.
When installing the new race into a hub with a steel insert it is effective to heat the hub since you can chill the outer race and it can more easily be driven/pulled into the hub.
There are, of course, different ways to skin this cat. The above is just my preferred way.
Ken
____________________________________
There's no such thing as too many airheads
There's no such thing as too many airheads
Re: Wheel bearings
Well, I did use the axle and spacers to pull the bearing races into their homes. I'm sure they are seated all the way.
Coincidentally, some bicycle bottom bracket tools I have are as if custom made for that job. In the early 1980s there were several companies that used sealed bearings in bottom brackets. The axle spindles are 17mm, same as our wheel axles. The outer diameter of some of the spacers is a slip fit into the bearing bore of the snowflake wheels.
The bearings I had taken out of the wheel showed that they had been too tight. I had bought a few wedding band spacers but do not have one that is wide enough for the job. A couple weeks ago, I sent Duane a request for his shim kit but I think he had already left for his trip. I'm going to head out to the BMW dealer to try to buy some wider bands.
Chuey
Coincidentally, some bicycle bottom bracket tools I have are as if custom made for that job. In the early 1980s there were several companies that used sealed bearings in bottom brackets. The axle spindles are 17mm, same as our wheel axles. The outer diameter of some of the spacers is a slip fit into the bearing bore of the snowflake wheels.
The bearings I had taken out of the wheel showed that they had been too tight. I had bought a few wedding band spacers but do not have one that is wide enough for the job. A couple weeks ago, I sent Duane a request for his shim kit but I think he had already left for his trip. I'm going to head out to the BMW dealer to try to buy some wider bands.
Chuey
Re: Wheel bearings
I do believe my preload issues are behind me!
There is no guarantee that you will get the right wedding band from a bmw dealer.
Wedding bands are a bit like the FM radio band.
104mhz, no good.
105mhz, no good.
104.6mhz, spot on!
There is no guarantee that you will get the right wedding band from a bmw dealer.
Wedding bands are a bit like the FM radio band.
104mhz, no good.
105mhz, no good.
104.6mhz, spot on!
Lord of the Bings
Re: Wheel bearings
Chuey:
Sorry if this has already been answered.
Not positive if the snowflake is like my slash five spoke wheel, but in my case, you install the entire bearing stack as one assembly.
If you do not have wedding bands, or shims, you can hone the existing wedding band (for tighter) or the outer spacer (for looser). If I went that route, I could likely take some material off of the outer spacer before installing the stack, to be sure that the final adjustment was done by thinning the wedding band.
Does this make any sense?
Blaise
Sorry if this has already been answered.
Not positive if the snowflake is like my slash five spoke wheel, but in my case, you install the entire bearing stack as one assembly.
If you do not have wedding bands, or shims, you can hone the existing wedding band (for tighter) or the outer spacer (for looser). If I went that route, I could likely take some material off of the outer spacer before installing the stack, to be sure that the final adjustment was done by thinning the wedding band.
Does this make any sense?
Blaise