1971 R75/5 parts confusion...

[dwire]

I was just lurking about on eBay, a rare thing for me these days and ran across this bike: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-R-Se ... cles#v4-34

OK, plenty about their listing has me lost. Surely not quite as original as they'd like one to think; look at the redundant rear side-reflectors (in the turn signal pods AND on the fender) yet nothing at all up front.

My question stems around the seat on the bike. My '71 R75/5 was produced after the one listed as they list their bike with the following VIN: 2975807. Mine is a 2980*** bike; later in the production and an 04/71 production date bike.

Would everyone agree, the seat mounted on that eBay bike is NOT correct and is in fact a seat that would have not been installed until on or after 09/71 - just as the ETK denotes?

I'd love hear, "Yeah, that's a correct seat..." for that would be grand for me and I'd no longer be disturbed about the fact that type of seat is what I had to fit to my 04/71 bike, due to the obsolescence of the dual grab rail type with "grab strap" across the center of seat -the one that I would have thought to be correct for my bike. (The entire seat thing sucked for me anyway, for some idiot discarded my bike's OEM seat in favor of a terrible aftermarket double seat so wide one's feet would not touch the ground properly.) Opinions and comments welcome and appreciated.

[Deleted User 72]

AFAIK, that is the correct seat.

[Wayne J in MA]

I hate to even make a comment since I was jumped on last time I commented on originality, even though I meant no criticism of the individual's bike, but here goes. However, anyone that wants to criticize please read all my comments. I actually believe in owners changing to suit their needs I just hope some survive in original kit.

My 1971 has the factory original seat on it with original cover. It is the two grab handle version with the smooth cover and grab strap across the middle, not what is on this bike. That is also what my original owner's manual shows as correct. That is considered the factory seat for the 1969(EU)-1971(US) model years.

That being said, it was pointed out to me several months ago that many dealers swapped parts around on bikes before they were sold. If this bike was unsold when the newer style seats came into the showroom it could have been swapped by the dealer for some unknown reason. That would make it original as from the dealer just not original as from the factory. The serial number indicates it to be too early in the year to be around the seat changeover over period. Since the seat shown came out in the next model year I highly doubt the factory had some of the new style kicking around nearly 1 year early and decided to mount it.

But regardless of the seat and a few other inconsistencies, the bike looks to be a fine example and if I was looking for another /5 SWB and felt it was a fair price I would jump on it.

[dwire]

@ Native /5 -->
Really? OK. All info I collected for a long time including BMW's parts listings and ETK system didn't or don't agree.

Don't get me wrong, I am not at all disagreeing or trying to be combative, as remember, it would be TO MY ADVANTAGE IF YOU ARE RIGHT - for that would mean my replacement BMW seat is of the correct type. So keeping that in mind, is your opinion based on the fact that the seat looks original on the bike? - (old and weathered/faded a bit) It sure looks aged like one might expect for one that was garage kept all these years, and surely it has likely been on that or another bike for many, many years. I just cannot figure out why it would have had a seat put on it that by all accounts did not turn up until 5 months after my bike was produced, yet the eBay listed bike was produced even earlier than what I researched for my '71 /5. Hmmm...

I wondered if the bike had been wrecked/dropped long, long ago and the seat and rear fender were damaged and replaced with the parts for 09/71 and up bikes. My understanding is the dual grab rail seats and a few other of the parts put on the earliest bikes, went away/were discontinued and gone pretty rapidly after the changes were made. Maybe this is when they put the replacement non-drilled and reflector-less front turn signal pods on as well? Dunnoh. Try getting those NLA reflectors for the turn signal pods, other than the extra full set I have, they're about as common as Faberge Eggs today!

Someone else would know for sure more about the VIN#'s - I am wondering now too, a bike produced when BMW "claims" they made the change to the seat into what is pictured there and I ended up with as a replacement for mine, would anyone know, a bike produced in 09/71 - when the seat style change-over in question took place; would that have not possibly been an early 1972 bike anyway? I believe my ex's 1971 R75/5 was a 09 or 10/70 production date and was a 1971 model year bike; just as they do for automobiles...

Thanks for weighing in. I hope to hear more from you and others here that are experienced with the history of these bikes in that era. Remember too, while instinct and the info I have makes me think that is a later seat, I WOULD BE ELATED to find out there is a consensus you are in fact correct, for that would mean mine now is the proper seat and I'll never be nagged by wanting to blow as much as the entire new BMW seat costs to make mine back into the earlier SWB seat style. Something not cheap, wasteful and pretty aggravating all around! - Thanks again.

Anyone else?

[dwire]

OK, thanks for your take as well Wayne. I was replying when you posted.

I think we just said the same thing here, but perhaps you've given me an idea, maybe I can just pretend some dealer put the '72 model year seat on my bike in their showroom because a customer preferred it, or they needed one of the others for a repair. - Maybe that would make me feel better about the seat I ended up with, rather than the one you describe (dual handle with grab strap...) - the same one by all accounts, not only was I told I was buying, but I too felt was proper for the bike. Talk about a let down when I opened that box - the only redeeming thing was ANYTHING was going to be better then the POS that was installed on that bike when I purchased it!

(Incidentally, those terrible replacement seats must have been a fad; my ex's earlier (late 70's production, 1971 model) bike had the exact same replacement POS on it that was horrible, uncomfortable and in general NOT AT ALL suitable for the bike; especially for a person with the average inseam at a stop light/sign!)

[Rob Frankham]

According to my old pa5rts catalogue, the '2 handle' seat was used up to the '72 model. Then the ribbed one handle seat was introduced. The BMW model year, however, changed in September so it's prefectly possible that a '72 model year bike would have been sold in late 1971.

That being said, ETK shows 2975807 as being produced in December 1970 which would make it a '71 model... in which case, it has the 'wrong' seat. Up to you if it's so objectionable that it makes the bike non-viable.

The only oither things I can see that aren't original are the rear shocks. Again, it's up to you if you see this a a 'sensible modification' or a 'desecration of an original machine'. either way, if you so desire, a set of original Boge shocks wouldn't be too hard to come by.

Rob

[wirewrkr]

Wrong seat. Bike was built in December of 70, making it an early 71 model.
The plain non ribbed upholstery and two piece handle was unique to the 70 and 71 models AND the handles cannot be changed out for the one piece as the seat pans are different between the two. That being said, someone also added a later rear license plate bracket with reflector mounts and swapped out the later aluminum turn signals in the front.
My guess is that all these parts came from the same 1972-73.5 donor bike.
What is important is the statement that the seller is making, "unmolested".
Either he is ignorant of the truth or he is a lying sack of shit. In either case if I was looking for a correct
swb /5, this isn't the bike and he isn't the guy I would buy it from.

[Duane Ausherman]

I was a BMW dealer selling them in those years. That seat was from a 72 model year.

[dwire]

Indeed, the last three posts echo my sentiments about it being incorrect. For the record, I have no interest in the bike - I have one with low miles that runs like a sewing machine, but does need new rubber under it and since I have been through my share of 40-50+ year old daily drivers, would prefer be able to go through my bike, take it to the frame, re-paint it and be done with it for my foreseeable lifetime, save maintanence. If it can look this nice after 40 years, surely with it refreshed, it will likely still look far better when I am gone than it does now.

My question about the eBay bike's seat was merely to confirm what I already thought I knew, though it is interesting to considering that some dealers may have did a bit of "swapping" here and there. Perhaps if I make it to Ken's this year, maybe I can think of a good way of getting those double grab rails sized up properly if anyone else has an early '71 with them on there. I can have them bent, drilled and plated for less than buying "crap" ones that need plated anyway. I do think they'll fit the later model wrap-around rail's holes too. The depressing notion is tearing up the brand new BMW upholstery on a new seat assembly just to make it right, but such is life. I can say though the seat is super low on the list - right now I would think a set of rubber so I could be riding it instead of getting teary-eyed each day, both walking by it on my way to a much less pleasurable to drive 4-wheeler and the tears I cry when $10-$20 of gas in my Jeep gets me 45 miles or so!

I wonder if that fellow knows anything about the bike he/she is selling? I hope not, otherwise, they're description is pretty lame - they should have added, "Last owner was a little old lady that only went to Church every Sunday on it..." 95% of the people in the market for a bike such as these is likely to know what they are buying is not original. At any rate, I just wanted to confirm what I already knew - that's the wrong seat and as well, my dismay when the "wrong seat" ('72 style) seat arrived errantly from Germany was well warranted.

Thank you.

[wirewrkr]

As far as the early grab rails lining up with the later holes......
No they don't as I said earlier.