60/5 starting problems

[nofd504]

I have a 72 60/5 that I am having trouble with lately.I have not had much luck starting it lately, so I replaced the plugs, points, and the battery is less than 6 months old. the battery reads 12.0 at rest,when i engage the starter all i get is the relay chatter and minimal starter turning. I have weak spark at the plug, and the bike will not kick start.It has new fuel,so I assume the problem could be the relay or the starter? I cleaned and greased the battery leads,but still nothing, although the lights and horn sound.These electrical things have me confused. Help.

[Kurt in S.A.]

Battery reading of 12.0v at rest is not good...should be upwards of 12.5 or even 12.7. Relay clatter suggests low battery voltage.

What does the battery voltage read at the terminals when you hit the start button? If it drops down to below 10v, then you're battery is toast. A battery should only go down to maybe 10.5 or just below 11v.

Kurt in S.A.

[nofd504]

I had it on the charger for a while today,read 12.5, hit the starter and it fell to 10.5,10.3,it didnt start,but starter turned a few times. the battery audibly wore down quickly,then backfired on the left cylinder.I know it may be the battery, but it is relatively new.Could there be an issue causing it to discharge so quickly or maybe just a bad battery?

[George Ryals]

Jump start it from an auto battery. If the starter spins and turns the engine normally then the problem is the motorcycle battery.

[nofd504]

Is that always safe? I've heard different opinions on jumping from cars.

[nofd504]

Also, shouldn't this bike kick even with a dead battery?

[Major Softie]

Is that always safe? I've heard different opinions on jumping from cars.

Yes. I've heard them too. They are wrong.

It isn't a bad idea to avoid jumping while a car is running, just in case its regulator is providing a higher voltage than your vehicle might like (usually more of an issue with more modern electronics), but the idea that a high amperage car battery provides too much current for the smaller system of a motorcycle demands a profound misunderstanding of how electrical systems work.

The best bet for where such "old wife's tales" have gotten their start is from someone damaging their diode board by jumping from a car battery and having the connections backwards. THAT is something you should avoid.

[Jean]

A dead battery won't provide enough current for the ignition. Only the battery provides voltage and current to the coils, Nothing else. The charging circuit won't work if the battery is dead as the battery provides the exitation voltage for the alternator, so IT will do it's charging. A weak battery might, depending on just how weak it is. My /5 will kick-start on a battery with one dead cell which will NOT operate the electric starter.
Weak spark. Have you changed the capacitor? (condenser to some of you! but we've been there before, haven't we?) A shorted capacitor will kill your spark, while an "open" will give a weak spark.
Does it fire at all when you use the kick starter? Are the SP wet after working the kick starter? Three cycles of foot action SHOULD put gas into each cylinder.
How long did you let the bike sit up when it got hard to start? Your carburetors could be fouled and you are not getting gas where you need it. Those idle jet/passageways are so easy to gum-up!!

Using an auto battery to operate your starter won't HURT anything as long as you obey the same rules you'd obey when using your motorcycle battery. Using big auto jumper cable clamps can be a trick tho. There's not much space to hook onto your battery terminals in the confines of the frame. Don't run the starter for a long time. It gets REALLY HOT and that's not good for it. Six-to-8 seconds is about as long as you ought to let it run. If nothing happens in that time, either you are not getting a spark, or not getting gas into the cyl.

I think your "6-month old" battery is "gone". It's taking a surface charge, and is not capable of long term current supply. It sounds like it either is sulfated, or has a dead cell. Hope it didn't cost too much.

[nofd504]

Thanks for the info, everyone,i'll try the car,but it sounds more like the battery than anything now. I just hate buying batteries,seems like i just need to ride more. I have a new condensor, but have heard that they seldom go bad, so I didn't change it when I changed points.Off to the battery shop again.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

One would think that with modern manufacturing processes and newer battery technology (like absorbed glass mat and sealed batteries) that we could count on our batteries lasting for a handful of years. This is especially so since we're used to ignoring our car batteries for something approaching the full warranty period. But it seems that motorcycle batteries just won't. I've come to a conclusion that motorcycle batteries just aren't going to be as reliable as car batteries.

I'm sure that pro-active maintenance, including battery tenders during the winter months and prolonged periods of non use might make all the difference, especially for a person like me who just doesn't ride all my bikes all the time. And before I know it months of inattention have piled up.

This is, of course, a personal problem as much as a battery problem. But I have a lot of experience with myself and it appears that I just won't do right by my batteries. Yielding to my personal deficiencies I've developed a couple strategies. Since there might be somebody else who operates like I do, here they are:

1. I don't keep all my motorcycles ready to go all the time. It's more like I keep a certain number of batteries running all the time. With modern motorcycle batteries I can get excellent volt-amps and cold cranking amps in a case size that I don't have to unbolt the sub frame to install. That makes moving a battery from bike to bike a lot easier.

2. Since I live predominately in the wilds of Oklahoma, miles from civilization, I keep a dry charged battery or two in stock. That way, when the need arises, I'm minutes away from a fresh battery (and occasionally fresh holes in my jeans). Of course I'm burning up warranty time with the dry battery on the shelf, but the warranty period is only a year anyhow. (The last AGM battery I bought had a warranty period of only 3 months. What's up with that? I found myself speeding to get the battery home and in the bike. Well, OK, I didn't, but I like the image of blowing stop lights and racing home to get the most out of a 3 month warranty.)

While I'm all over the map in this post with my musings I'll go ahead and do another one: Is anybody as irritated as I am about the tapered nozzle on the battery acid containers? The hose wants to slip off, not stay on. What's up with that? Well, actually, I've got that figured out too. The mold for the cap would have to be more complex for a straight or heavily ribbed nozzle. That would mean a more complex mold and a more complex machine to knock the cap out of the mold when it solidifies. And the extra 2 cents per cap cost would translate to 2 more dollars at the retail level. (Oops, there I go, exaggerating again. The retail cost adder would probably only be something like 50 cents. And I'd be happy to pay it considering the cost of jeans nowadays!)


OK, I'm done now.


Ken