Just discovered these bikes...

[dougie]

PLUS - Affordable, simple, 250cc, 300 lbs.
MINUS - Looks like a lot of Chinese manufacturing involved.
http://www.clevelandcyclewerks.com/bikes/
(motors are made by LIFAN?)

[Major Softie]

In the "minus" category, I think you'd have to include "70 mph top speed." Claimed absolute WFO top speed that is not fast enough to keep up on the freeway is a definite minus. Could be fine around the downtown though. Really weird tire sizes would also have to be on the list.

On the plus side, big gas tank and kickstarter would be on my list.

I think I'd much rather have a Kawi, Suzi, or Honda 250. Then you even get power adequate for the freeway. Much more money new, but lots of used ones around. They give you an "indicated" top speed of around 100, so zipping along the freeway at 75+ is not a huge headache for them, just a bit buzzy for you.

[Deleted User 287]

The "Ace" looks like a retro Japanese late 70's/early 80's cruiser style.

Why would anyone want one of those?

[dougie]

In the "minus" category, I think you'd have to include "70 mph top speed." Claimed absolute WFO top speed that is not fast enough to keep up on the freeway is a definite minus. Could be fine around the downtown though. Really weird tire sizes would also have to be on the list.

Didn't know about that 70 mph limit. That would be a deal breaker.

[dougie]

Just found out that the engine in those bikes puts out about 10kw. That is less than an R26. More like yard equipment.
Why won't somebody come up with a modern version of the '60's Ducati singles? A 250 Diana made 28hp and weighed 280lbs. Even the CBR250 Honda has less power and about 75 lbs more weight.
Maybe I need a Moto3 bike with K75S bars.

[Duane Ausherman]

We may discount the motorcycles offered up now by China, but remember the bikes from Japan in the 50s? They improved quickly and by a huge amount. By 20 years they were superior to most of the brands in reliability and speed.

In 1963 I was living in Cleveland and a friend went to the drag races weekly. One day he came back very excited and told me about this Japanese bike that was only a 250 cc and it beat every motorcycle there. Maybe the fastest bike wasn't there that week.

Wiat a few years to see what they offer. I will bet that they far outstrip India.

[Major Softie]

We may discount the motorcycles offered up now by China, but remember the bikes from Japan in the 50s? They improved quickly and by a huge amount. By 20 years they were superior to most of the brands in reliability and speed.

In 1963 I was living in Cleveland and a friend went to the drag races weekly. One day he came back very excited and told me about this Japanese bike that was only a 250 cc and it beat every motorcycle there. Maybe the fastest bike wasn't there that week.

Wiat a few years to see what they offer. I will bet that they far outstrip India.

Indian is improving dramatically too, but not nearly as fast as China. A little over 10 years ago China was mostly farm implement level of finishing, and they've improved enormously since then. I'm sure 10 years from now (barring unforseen political upheaval), they will have made many more leaps forward.

Still, the Japanese were a special case. Remember, they were building arms, planes, and ships superior to our own in the late 30's. Like Germany, Japan had to "recover" to build great products again. China has to get there for the first time.

[melville]

We may discount the motorcycles offered up now by China, but remember the bikes from Japan in the 50s? They improved quickly and by a huge amount. By 20 years they were superior to most of the brands in reliability and speed.

In 1963 I was living in Cleveland and a friend went to the drag races weekly. One day he came back very excited and told me about this Japanese bike that was only a 250 cc and it beat every motorcycle there. Maybe the fastest bike wasn't there that week.

Wiat a few years to see what they offer. I will bet that they far outstrip India.

Indian is improving dramatically too, but not nearly as fast as China. A little over 10 years ago China was mostly farm implement level of finishing, and they've improved enormously since then. I'm sure 10 years from now (barring unforseen political upheaval), they will have made many more leaps forward.
Still, the Japanese were a special case. Remember, they were building arms, planes, and ships superior to our own in the late 30's. Like Germany, Japan had to "recover" to build great products again. China has to get there for the first time.

Nice placement! Chinese industry's big challenge is being self motivated to produce at a high level of quality, rather than a price. I don't think I've yet seen a Chinese product sold with its actual maker's name on it, save for some vintage Flying Pigeon bicycles. They have to move beyond private label manufacturing.

[Major Softie]

I'm sure 10 years from now (barring unforseen political upheaval), they will have made many more leaps forward.

Nice placement! Chinese industry's big challenge is being self motivated to produce at a high level of quality, rather than a price. I don't think I've yet seen a Chinese product sold with its actual maker's name on it, save for some vintage Flying Pigeon bicycles. They have to move beyond private label manufacturing.

I didn't even recognize it until you pointed it out.


I think Korea is a much better comparison to make than India, as they also came up to speed extremely quickly, and, as you pointed out, they made the transition for building simply to a price point to building quality products marketed with their own name on them. Samsung was making the cheapest crap electronics as recently as the 80's, and now are the leader in flar-panel monitors and TV's. Hyundai and Kia didn't get to the U.S. until 86 and 92 respectively, and now have cut deeply into the U.S. car market. They've been especially successful biting into Japan's share of our market with the tsunami's impact on Japan's production capacity. It couldn't have come at a better time for Korea.