Flat Rate vs Shop Rate Ooch!

[SuperDave]

I took my wheel to be straighten to a BMW shop here in texas.
When I called for a quote I was told $75 hr was the shop rate and that it would take about an hour to do it.
Okay, sounded good.

While my wheel was bent, he said it was my wheel bearings that I was feeling and sure enough one was bad.
He said replacing the bearings would take about another hour but he didn't have any bearings in stock and couldn't put the tire back on and ballance it with the way it was. So fine, and I checked around and found the $25 bearing for $6, and the $52 one for $14.

I sent the bearings up to the shop with Todd and the next day I was called and told that my wheel was ready.
They said it came to $230! I was expecting 2 x $75 + tax ($162)
I was floored. When I contested it, I was told that someone was helping him but I was only changed for one person's labor.
They came $30 off to match the $75 an hour that I was told but would not come down off the other haft hour because the time quoted as only an estimate and because he worked the time.

I was told that it took him 2.5 hours at $85 an hour (Hour that I have now come to understand were NOT flat rate).
I was there when they straightened the wheel and they didn't do it like they said by heating it and placing it in a jig in a xx ton press. It's better, but... He still needed to install the tire, and ballance so adding up the time minus the time that we went looking for tools in a messy shop and beer, it should not have been more than 1.5 hours total for the wheel.
Wheel bearings at dealerships charge 0.5 hours flat rate at $85 an hour. He quoted me one hour at $75 so that would mean that he charges twice the amount compared to the other dealers around here.

Their shop has been here for years but I have to wonder if I did this in the world of computer virus repaird that take me up to 6-8 + hours on some of those Mean & nasties rootkits. I charge $35 an hr with a max cost of $100 .
Parts, I head down to Fry's then and hand them the recept and they do an even exchange.

So, my question is, are shops now charging how long it took them to do the job in a tool litter shop?
I still thought that BMW shops use flat rate and expecteed it here too. Should they charge time for each person that wokes in it? I need my wheel, but this wasn;t the firdst time they had quoted me a price and then $250 extra for painting a fairing,

SO yes no, charge by the hour, or charge by flat rate like everyone else.???

[gspd]

Dave =
I can't vouch for how anybody conducts their business, but YOU are ripping YOURSELF off.
8+ hours for $100 !?!!?!
That's barely above minimum wage (well here at least).
And NOBODY handles parts without a markup.
What gives?

I have a 'FULL RETAIL" price; it's basically a high estimate that covers me,
so no matter what happens, I don't LOSE money.
There is also a 'STREET PRICE' (wholesale?); that's the price you drop down to for select customers AFTER you figure out what your actual time and parts expenditure was.

I'd rather lose a job or two now and then, than lose money on a job.
I give friends a better deal, but Christ, I've gotta make a living.

A few days ago a friend referred one of his co-workers to me;
Late Honda Accord, needed front brakes (discs & pads) and 1 front wheel bearing.
After checking the car, I quoted the guy $250 cash.all incl.
He offered to pay $200 ; I told get back in his car to fuck off.
My friend called me to ask what happened (his co-worker had told him I rudely kicked him out of my shop),
I explained that the guy was a moron and life was too short to deal with people like that..
The guy ended taking it to a Honda dealer and was soaked for just under $400. good for him.
I didn't like the guy anyway.

As far as your wheel goes, I wasn't there and don't know first hand what was involved so I don't know what I would have charged. Was it a mag or spokes?
How much of everybody's time was wasted discussing the bearings you ended up supplying?
If someone brings me their own parts to install, I charge a markup for handling to compensate for the profit I would have made if I was supplying the parts. Looks like, indirectly, they did too.
I don't understand why they needed 2 guys to fix a wheel, was one an apprentice learning how to do it?

90% of my customers and their families are old repeat business, many going back to the 1980's.
They know the routine AND always tip generously.
They know they're getting a more than fair shake when they deal with me.
New customers either learn the 'routine' quickly or simply go away. Good riddance.

I've been in the biz too long, I know all the variables.
I don't have time to deal with misunderstandings like what happened to you and your wheel AFTER a repair.
I settle it BEFORE even lifting a tool.
Nobody complains when you charge them LESS than the original quote.
What if the guy had told you it would cost $300 right at the start but only charged you $230 when you picked it up ?
Would you have been happy to pay ONLY $230 ?

It is bad business practice, IMHO, to underquote just to get the job in, and then charge more because there were 'additional operations' needed. Like those ' $59 brake job specials' you see advertised all over.
Wake up people; you never get out for $59... EVER ! .

Duane, please continue.....

[grant81rs]

[quote="gspd"]Dave =
I can't vouch for how anybody conducts their business, but YOU are ripping YOURSELF off.
8+ hours for $100 !?!!?!
It is bad business practice, IMHO, to underquote just to get the job in, and then charge more because there were 'additional operations' needed. Like those ' $59 brake job specials' you see advertised all over.
Wake up people; you never get out for $59... EVER ! .


Spot on the money GSPD...

[SuperDave]

Dave =
I can't vouch for how anybody conducts their business, but YOU are ripping YOURSELF off. 8+ hours for $100 !?!!?!
That's barely above minimum wage (well here at least). And NOBODY handles parts without a markup. What gives?

Well, as far as mine goes.... 8 hours is not the normal time, but it does happen. On some boxes, reimaging is the last option. Plus 8 hours of virus work is different than 8 hours of digging ditchs. There is about one hour of solid hacking/dehacking and the rest of the time is spent next to the box waiting for a scan(s) and updates to complete while watching tv. If I charged $35 (which is cheap) at 8 hours is $280. The problem I'm faced with is not totaling the computer because of a virus. These are just little side jobs that help pay for my trips. I do full blown IT for a living but not little stuff like this. As far as a markup on computer parts, I can't charge sales tax, so I just have them pay me back.

I've been in the biz too long, I know all the variables. I don't have time to deal with misunderstandings like what happened to you and your wheel AFTER a repair. I settle it BEFORE even lifting a tool.
(snip)
What if the guy had told you it would cost $300 right at the start but only charged you $230 when you picked it up ?
Would you have been happy to pay ONLY $230 ?

"I settle it BEFORE even lifting a tool."
And I thought that's where I was.

If they would have told me $300, $230, hell, $200 I would have walked. I went there for $75 plus tax. I do not have the tools to mount and balance a tire but I dam will now! $75 more to get it together for our trip... well okay because I would have still needed my tire back on (three spoke mag, R1100RS). Now, we are having to cut our trip short unless I can get more side jobs which sucks.

So back to the main question....
Do you charge for what you think its worth (flat rate) or do you charge by the hour and take your/my time (hourly)?
Have you ever seen a BMW shop that only charged by time spent and not flat rate?

[gspd]

If they would have told me $300, $230, hell, $200 I would have walked.

For a bent mag, I'd charge about $100 + the bearings;
$20 for re+re tire + balancing. (10 minutes)
$5 to hit the rim with a plastic sledge hammer(10 seconds)
$20 to replace the bearings (10 minutes)
$50 for knowing exactly where and how hard to hit it. (timeless)

If the customer supplied the bearings, ie no markup for me,
or if I didn''t like him,
I would charge $20 extra for grease and shop supplies.

And don't forget another $100 if it also needs re-powdercoating.

Most mag wheels straighten perfectly with ONE blow equal (but opposite direction) to the one that caused the bend.
They usually pop right back.
The bare rim has to be SOLIDLY clamped to an automotive type tire changing machine or all efforts are futile.
It cost me hundreds of $$$ to learn this method decades ago.
I used to take wheels to a guy and watch HIM do it. DUH!
At the time I was not well equipped or confident enough to attemt it myself.
Now it's a piece 'o' cake

[Zombie Master]

Oh what I wouldn't give to have a real mechanic to rely on. One who would do the job right the first time, and let me get on with the other things I want to do. But no, every single fucking time I need something done, they always botch the job. So I end up doing all my own work, and I'd really rather not. So what do I do? I drive a Chev G20 standard van, thinking that everyone and their brother could work on that truck easily. Forget about it. I'd love to drive something more exotic but the talent to maintain it properly is just not there.

Riding is one of the great pleasures in my life. I do the maintenance because I want to have a safe reliable bike. I don't hate working on machinery, but sometimes I really just don't have the time. I've tried being friendly with shops, showing up with a case of beer several times. Just seemed to make matters worse. I've tried telling the mechanic that if he needs to spend some extra time to do the job I'm OK with that. Just turns out to be a signal to eviscerate, and still so a shoddy job. The best way is to be a total asshole, but I don't like to live like that.

If I found a really good guy I would be most grateful. I'm not looking for the cheap job, I'm looking for the job done right. Oh well, I guess I'm not going get to go down on Christy Turlington either....sigh.

[SuperDave]

http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle ... 42927.html $49.87
http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle ... 98488.html $59.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch-ge ... 93230.html $5.99
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$73.72 plus tax to never be at their mercy again.... now there's priceless!

[gspd]

I've tried being friendly with shops, showing up with a case of beer several times.

Before they start the job, or after?

Now you know why I uncrated my bike myself.
I was even nervous about the fork lift kid unloading the crate off of the damn truck.

[gspd]

....never be at their mercy again.... now there's priceless!

That's why I muscled into the powder coat biz,
it was the only thing I was farming out and I couldn't sleep when my parts were there.

[Zombie Master]

I've tried being friendly with shops, showing up with a case of beer several times.

Before they start the job, or after?

Tried both! Why, when they screw up, am I'm a bad guy?