R100R 1993

[Souljer]

Hi,

I've been meaning to ask two questions, this time about riding technique but specific to the Airhead engine and gearbox:

1) If I'm riding around canyon curves, etc.;
What are your feelings on engine braking instead of shifting or using the brakes instead of engine braking?
- Is engine braking okay for the engine? Will it wear out the engine?
- I do this on the streets too, but feel it's less stressful/wear & tear since I'm doing it mostly at intersections and at lower speeds.

2) When riding around and moving from gear to gear (especially 1st to 2nd), I noticed that applying pressure to the shift lever in advance of shifting helps. Between 1st and 2nd, fewer Neutrals are popping in uninvited.
- Any feelings on this? Is it okay to do this?

I appreciate your experiences and help.
Thanks.

[bbelk]

What are your feelings on engine braking instead of shifting or using the brakes instead of engine braking?

I think brakes are cheap, front wheels last a lot longer than back, and downshifting in a curve can get you into trouble, so I think using your drive train rather than your brakes is in general not a super good idea.

I noticed that applying pressure to the shift lever in advance of shifting helps.

Thats as close as you can get to a Japanese transmission and is often recommended around here to help with the general tractor quality of the airhead transmission.

[Major Softie]

It really depends on the situation. Yes, brakes are much cheaper than engines and drivelines, but I also really like when I'm in the right gear to do all my speed control with my right hand. The behavior of the shaft drive when downshifting and rolling off the throttle also enters into the equation. So, no, there's nothing wrong with using the engine braking characteristics of your bike, and it doesn't wear out your engine, but it's also a matter of "within reason."

Generally, I think the harder you are riding, the better off you are relying on brakes rather then upsetting your suspension.

[chasbmw]

BMWs like you to ride them smoothly through the bends on a gently rising throttle, this means you get all your slowing down and gear changing done,before you turn in.

I don't use the brakes much on my bikes, the throttle does most of the work. Using the brakes hard Will upset you suspension.

Remember ride smoothly and find that airheads can hustle along a bit.

[ME 109]

Tractor gearbox?!
There is no excuse for tractor box on a lightened flywheel.
Edit, Well, so what if they get a false neutral here and there
Engine break, use your brakes, whatever is required I would have thought.

Souljer, higher revs in first will help a lot, in the shift to second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oSDCDMoPQA

[Souljer]

Hi,

Thanks so much guys. I appreciate the feedback.
I was primarily wondering if it was simply a bad idea as in, "brakes are cheap, engines are expensive" kind of thing.
If they are designed for some low rev deceleration then I guess it's okay if not abused or in excess. I generally try to brake/slow down when still in a straight line as I approach the curve/corner. However I'm inexperienced and sometimes get it wrong.
I'm trying to figure out what concepts, and habits I should be nurturing at this point. If you check out some of my other videos on my channel you can see my inexperienced riding. Taking my time and I haven't crashed yet though, so I must be doing something right.

Sounds like you all like the shifting idea. Good.
Not sure what "tractor gearbox" means. I thought that was a complement: So tough and reliable?? I guess I'm just an optimist.

Love the footage ME 109. That's excellent. Something for me to aim for. Since my bike is the first cousin of a GS the bike should be able to do the same? I need a lot of training and practice but the bike should be capable, yes?

What tires are you running in some of that? Especially the off-road parts? Are you riding on your street tires or do you ride the streets and highways with some kind of courser knobbies?

Oh yeah, back to your comment.
What I meant by engine breaking was that I thought I could get it in the correct gear in the canyons and basically ride it in "automatic" between engine breaking and the power band.

Does that make sense?

[ME 109]

What tires are you running in some of that? Especially the off-road parts? Are you riding on your street tires or do you ride the streets and highways with some kind of courser knobbies?


What I meant by engine breaking was that I thought I could get it in the correct gear in the canyons and basically ride it in "automatic" between engine breaking and the power band.

Same tyres everywhere Souljer, pilot activ rear, lasertec front.

Canyons love second and third gear. But more important is the rev range. And even more important is what revs where.
Basically, under three thousand rpm is too low, and over eight is too much fun to do all the time.

Edit, your bike will go almost anywhere, just don't hit big humps or holes at an inappropriate speed.

[Major Softie]

I'm trying to figure out what concepts, and habits I should be nurturing at this point.

Probably the two most important "concepts/habits" for you to concentrate on are:

1. The one Chas brought up: smoother is better.

2. ALWAYS remember: everyone is trying to kill you.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

Oh yeah, back to your comment.
What I meant by engine breaking was that I thought I could get it in the correct gear in the canyons and basically ride it in "automatic" between engine breaking and the power band.

Does that make sense?

Engine braking vs brake braking? A lot depends on your aggression level. If job one is to get through a set of twisties as quickly as possible, then a judicious, somewhat heavy handed, combination of engine braking and brake braking is required, especially since stock airhead brakes are "wanting". If, on the other hand, your idea of going through twisties is more "ballet" like than racing like, then your style will be much different. Matching gearing, engine speeds, and road speeds will rule: and brake braking could be thought of as an adjunct to engine braking.

Personally, especially at my age, I enjoy the ballet.

Another factor is the airhead transmission itself, especially the 5 speed. Some parts, especially that very important cluster gear, are unavailable (and I haven't heard of an aftermarket source for them). Plus overhauling a transmission, as ME 109, Duane, and others can tell you, is very detailed and demanding, and demands research before you undertake it. Not for the faint of heart.

Duane Ausherman's advise to have a spare, known good, transmission on the shelf, boxed and ready for shipment to where ever you're stranded, remains excellent advice.

Were I younger and more inclined to seriously carve the canyon roads I would have two bikes, the airhead and something intended for such activities. Back in the day, my old '84 Yamaha FJ1100, which along with the Ninja were considered the first dedicated "sport" bikes, was a delight. It had brakes, power, and handling which was so superior to my two airheads that there was no question which bike I would mount for purposeful canyon carving.

Nowadays I have a little game which I sometimes play when I want to do a bit of "carving". I create an imaginary "lane" that I'm allowed to occupy which is about a foot wide. My job is to stay on that path going "quickly" and cleanly. The game requires a real "sharpening up" in terms of speed, gear selection, throttle control, and such. And If I go off the path I've got enough room to safely recover.

My take on the subject, anyhow.

Ken

[Souljer]

Hi,

Thanks for the info and clues. That came in while I was typing Ken. I like the idea of a Ballet or something in between. I think I simply need more experience and practice. And I might get that chance this weekend. I think the group of sports bikes I mentioned way-back are going for a ride this coming weekend. I might join. Not sure yet, but this dialogue will come in handy in the back of my mind if I do.

I am an experienced driver and know flow-of-traffic pretty well. I basically follow the three rules of motorcycling I read somewhere:
1. Avoid being hit by anything.
2. Avoid hitting anything.
3. Don't drop it.

I'll remember that next time: Between 3500 and 8000. 2nd & 3rd gear.

Although I have no idea what those tires are for.
Mine are the Metzelers it came with.

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.